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Final Showdown: Digitech Jamman VS. Boss Loop Station

#21
I'd like to remind everyone that the Boomerang is not that much more expensive than these pedals, and is considered (among loopers) to be "serious," whereas the Boss and Digi, et al, are considered difficult to use. Check out the discussion at Looper's Delight, especially the "tools of the trade" pages. The exception would be the DD-20 which would be the one I would pick at this level -- you should really read the DD-20 review. (And the Electrix Repeater will be about $450 if it ever ships.) As Superbassman2000 knows, I can go on about this forever, so I'll shup up now.

(I offered my Echoplex for sale at Looper's Delight earlier today...)
 
#22
I really like my Boss RC-20XL. It's pretty indispensible to me. With that said, as soon as I can I'd like to try the Boomerang+ with my bass. It looks much more user friendly for live work. I will say that the Boss is really great for storing tunes that I may be working on. That way I can just dial it up, play through the tune for as long as I want, stop when I'm done and it'll still be there the next day. I'm looking at getting the boomerang as well eventually though. I'm also looking to get the DL-4 and I'm wondering if it's just overkill to do so if I get the Boomerang. Hmmmmmm.........
 
#24
I had a 2nd gen Boomerang and it was easy to use but I didn't like the roller control and I thought that the output was noisy. I will look into the Boomerang2 and see what that is all about.

If I could take the RC-20 form factor and build a new brain into it I would have these features:

Feedback control via external expression pedal
Program change with external momentary pedal
option to play one program while building the next one
(that would be "multiple independent loops", or multiple loops based on the loop time of the initial loop")

The DD-20 is really the undervalued box in this area. You can loop on the SOS patch, then you can switch to the delay/verb patches and play over the base loop. If you tap tempo to the original loop you can make some great evolving loops. The thing is it is "backwards" compared to the Rang/EDP. The first loop doesn't fade out but the other ones do.
 
#26
Bassmanbob said:
What about tone problems reported with the Boomerang???

Have you guys had problems with that?
Click to expand...

I'd like to here from Kelly Coyle on this one. How's the Boomerang+ in this regard? I'm may not be able to wait for next years version to get one. I had quite the epiphany last night listening to Stomu Takeishi playing on Cuong Vu's album "Come Play With Me". He's brilliant when it comes to live looping and it's quite inspiring.

Folks, if you don't know who Cuong Vu is, his music, or Stomu Takeishi, than start by going here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-0153551-8644121?v=glance&s=music&n=507846

Then check out Cuong's other two albums. Another place to hear Stomu is with Myra Melford as well as Henry Threadgill & Make A Move's "Where's Your Cup?". This is all some of the best music happening in the world in my opinion.
 
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#27
I'm kind of mixed on it, to be sure.

First of all, they can be noisy if you don't get the gain right. But you can usually (I won't say always -- usually IME) dial that out. It is fussy, that way, though. When people say 'Rangs are noisy, I suspect it's this issue, and they didn't take the time to work through it. There's a pot and a switch that control gain levels.

As far as sound quality goes, they aren't pristine like Boss can be. For that matter, the Echoplex Digital Pro isn't that great either, nor is the (original) Jamman. None of these devices are really studio tools (you have Live for that). On a stage, through your amp, I have never had any issues with sound quality. The Repeater (if it is ever released) will have modern specs.

The core issue, I think, for most loopers is "can you interactively control feedback of the loop?" Echoplex = yes. Lexicon Jamman = sort of but I don't remember how it works. Repeater = yes. Boomerang = yes, in a sense. DD-20 = sort of, as I understand it. All the others = no. (The TC 2290, the Eventide products, and, oh dear lord, Kyma are outside of my experience and cash flow.)

I have the Echoplex now, along with a TC D2 to do the ambient washes (which it does quite well). The problem with the Echoplex is there's too much, and you have to deal with its very fussy MIDI implementation or poke a million buttons on the front panel to get at it. (I hate MIDI.) If the Boomerang people had made the little roller thingy feedback instead of volume the whole debate would be closed in my opinion. It's got the very best interface of all of them, no bending over to twiddle knobs, easy shifting between its two loops, a nice "long delay" mode, the best reverse mode. I suspect I'm probably going to go back to it, although the Repeater (if it ever ships) is going to kill it in every category. The EDP will still be better than anything for mangling loops if you like that glitch-core stuff, but it's showing its age for sure. (It was designed, what, 30 years ago and hasn't really been significantly updated since.)

Where's Steve Lawson? He knows more than I do.
 
#30
Great info, Kelly. I have used most of the gear that you mention and I still think that the EDP has the best sound quality of them all. I also found that I could tweak the Rang output to get the noise down but I had to adjust my entire setup to match it.

I am interested in giving LIVE a try again to see how the switching and latency is with my rig. I liked it for somethings but it didn't switch from record to play without dropping time. Maybe I need to give it another whirl.
 
#31
fretlessrock said:
Great info, Kelly. I have used most of the gear that you mention and I still think that the EDP has the best sound quality of them all. I also found that I could tweak the Rang output to get the noise down but I had to adjust my entire setup to match it.

I am interested in giving LIVE a try again to see how the switching and latency is with my rig. I liked it for somethings but it didn't switch from record to play without dropping time. Maybe I need to give it another whirl.
Click to expand...

I like the EDP -- except for the MIDI part. The hardware foot controller is fussy and limited, and the only MIDI controller that will really work on the thing is the Behringer ($100) and I don't like it. Someone on Looper's Delight has said that the Ground Control Pro can be made to work ($400), or the All Access ($800). The sound quality -- officially -- is 18 bit, like Alesis 'verbs. Good enough for me. I don't know what the 'Rang runs at, but the Boss stuff is higher. Thing is, I like the loop quality to degrade, if it does it in a nice way. It makes it all more 3D.
 
#33
Bassmanbob said:
I have a DVD of Bass Day '98 with Michael Manring. He does Teen Town all solo with a looper. Does anyone know which looper it was? That was the video that got me interested in the first place. No way am I going to play like him, but I'd like to know for reference.

Thanks, Bob
Click to expand...

IIRC, Manring used to use two of the old Jammans- I think they operated using a MIDI floorboard.
 
#34
I've never used a looping station before, but I think I've read every review I could get my hands on about the Boss and Digitech. The expandability of the Jamman kind of has me sold. I've used Digitech effects for about 2 years now, and I've also tried out Boss stuff. While both are built just as well, the Digitech stuff seems to have an edge.

Plus, with USB connectivity, it seems like you could do some cool sampling and such things. When I can afford it, I'll add a Jamman to my arsenal.
 
#35
I have a 'Rang and a RC-20. I love the user-friendliness of the 'Rang, but the sound quality keeps me from using it live. I've tweaked and tweaked, but I find that I still get a lot of hiss that, at gig volumes, is unacceptable. The Boss sounds great; not much hiss and much fuller sound. Unfortunately, I've found it hard to get the timing down with it, while I do fine with the 'Rang. I think if I spend more time with the Boss, I will be able to master its idiosyncrasies.

If the Boomerang had better sound, I would most definitely use it exclusively.
 
#36
Monkey said:
I have a 'Rang and a RC-20. I love the user-friendliness of the 'Rang, but the sound quality keeps me from using it live. I've tweaked and tweaked, but I find that I still get a lot of hiss that, at gig volumes, is unacceptable. The Boss sounds great; not much hiss and much fuller sound. Unfortunately, I've found it hard to get the timing down with it, while I do fine with the 'Rang. I think if I spend more time with the Boss, I will be able to master its idiosyncrasies.

If the Boomerang had better sound, I would most definitely use it exclusively.
Click to expand...

Do you have the original Boomerang or the Boomerang+?
 
#37
Do you have the original Boomerang or the Boomerang+?

I have an original Boomerang that was upgraded to the +. When I first got my 'Rang, the sound would drop out sometimes, so I returned. It took two returns, but they eventually found the problem; a cracked circuit board. They said they upgraded it to the + model, but maybe the newer ones sound better.
 
#38
Monkey said:
Do you have the original Boomerang or the Boomerang+?

I have an original Boomerang that was upgraded to the +. When I first got my 'Rang, the sound would drop out sometimes, so I returned. It took two returns, but they eventually found the problem; a cracked circuit board. They said they upgraded it to the + model, but maybe the newer ones sound better.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine has an older one that's supposedly upgraded as well. I tried it once and it sounded terrible. Hopefully it's not the last update that they made.
 
#40
Matt Till said:
I suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucccccccccckk. I aparently paid for my Jamman with a e-Check and not pay pal, so it didn't get approved today.... what the hell is e-Check? And why is it different than paypal?

I gotta wait until Monday :crying: I'm going to lose my mind!
Click to expand...

Oh damn. I just did that recently with something. That does suck. In my case the worst part was that when I finally got what I was waiting for it didn't work for me (a built like a tank volume pedal that turned out to not work with an active bass........ :rollno: ).
 

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