Final solution to soundmen

[JimiLL]

Should I start complaining about people's use of the term to "dig in" because of it's connection to the millions of people that have died in trench warfare?

+1,000,000

 

[chadhargis]

nobody ever pays to see a soundman run a board. without bands, a soundman has zero reason to exist

I've been on both sides of the mic, and I can say that without a doubt the sound man has a very hard job. As performers, we get out in the spotlight. We get people clapping for us. The poor sound guy doesn't. He is there early, and stays late. He has to endure the attitudes. Believe it or not, even if there is no band, a club needs a good sound guy. Even playing CDs or MP3's can sound really bad if you don't know how to EQ for the venue or if your equipment isn't set up properly.

The other thing to consider is that you are hearing the sound either directly from your amp or through a wedge (which typically sound really bad). If you're lucky, you might have some side fill, but most places don't. What you hear on stage is NOTHING like what the house hears. It might sound awful on stage, and you think the sound guy has lost his mind, but in the house it sounds brilliant.

I used to record all the shows I ran sound for. The PA I used was really old. I used to pipe the house mix out to a cassette recorder. Bands used to always want a copy of the tape. I had a lot of comments on how bad it sounded on the tape, and I'd have to explain to them that it was the house mix (and sometimes the "house" was an outdoor venue). You have to EQ things for your room.

Something I used to to was to play a frequency sweep CD through the PA and use a SPL meter to determine where I was getting a bump or dip in a frequency. I'd set the EQ to "flatten" the room as a baseline, then tweak a little to make the music more "fun" (most don't appreciate a 'flat' sound, especially in a club).

I've not run sound in years, and today there is technology that I could only dream of back in the day. Even at my church, the sound guy has no fewer than three laptops connected to all the sound gear. Digital boards are just unreal.

I've never run across a really bad sound guy. As someone who used to run the board, I find that I have a differing opinion as to how I would do something, but I keep my mouth shut. I sympathize with the poor sound guy.

 

[JimmyM]

listen, i'll be the first to admit that many people work way harder than i do. but if i can't do my job without constantly worrying that my sound sucks because the soundman doesn't want to do things my way, then i can't do my job well and it will show in the performance. if the soundman's mad that i'm not letting him do his job, he can sit there and stew with a puss on his face and nobody cares. if i'm mad, then i won't perform as well, and i won't be able to draw the audience into the performance. and that is death to a band. therefore it is way more important that i'm happy, and a good soundman will realize that.

 

[WalterBush]

Their only function is to assist you in sounding good, period. A function which most definitely does NOT include telling musicians that they don't know what their instrument and/or music should sound like !

Unless, of course, the band involved are young, inexperienced types who only know what they've read in magazines and online forums.

The assumption you're making is that the musician is always right. This is patently not the case, especially with younger cats who may not have learned how to work as a team to produce good sound before they even get to the gig.

I an ideal world, all a soundman should have to do is set up, set the monitor mix, soundcheck, and sit back to make sure the faders don't spontaneously move during the set. In real life, making most bands sound good requires much, much more.

One thing I agree 100% with JimmyM on: if someone's handing you a check to run sound, do what they say, and on their heads be the results. Over time, you might be able to form enough of a relationship to make suggestions that result in their band sounding better, but at the end of the day, the person paying is the boss.

 

[jnuts1]

i have had both good & bad sound guys & the bad ones are down right brain dead sometimes. i had one put me thru a DI that was about 100 years old & beat to death with a hammer. my markbass has a DI built in but he wouldn't listen had to use his trusty gear. not even through the first tune & the bass is dropping out all over. 2nd tune it just stops working all together & he just sits there looking at me not realizing that there is NO bass. the worst part is when i turned around to unplug & go direct i ripped the azz out of my pants. i thought my head was going to explode.

 

[modulusman]

Being a soundman is a lot harder job than playing bass IMO. Having done both for a number of years the most stressful situations for me have been running sound. Longer hours, more gear to move, musicians egos, and the fact that everyone in the audience hears things differently. There are a hundred things that can go wrong when mixing a band. Equipment can breakdown, or feedback etc.

 

[b_carville]

Believe me I have tons of "soundmen from hell" stories.

I have tons of good ones too!

A lot of soundguys are people who buy a big PA system to get into the bigtime business of "Rock". Then there are others who BS their way into a club owners good graces and become the "house" soundman.

I can't begin to tell you how many sound companies I've worked with that had steller top line equipment and sent a clueless doofus to run it.

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've done gigs with a system I thought was subpar and the soundman had it sounding fabulous!

In November I worked with a young soundman who told me " I have practically no experience doing this but I know the system pretty well.Tell me what you need and who does what and I'll do my best". He had it sounding great by the 2nd number with no soundcheck.This was not a great PA either.

You can learn a lot from the good ones.We almost always bring our own soundman.This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've found the best sound people usually play music themselves.

 

[b_carville]

Believe me I have tons of "soundmen from hell" stories.

I have tons of good ones too!

A lot of soundguys are people who buy a big PA system to get into the bigtime business of "Rock". Then there are others who BS their way into a club owners good graces and become the "house" soundman.

I can't begin to tell you how many sound companies I've worked with that had steller top line equipment and sent a clueless doofus to run it.

I can't begin to tell you how many times I've done gigs with a system I thought was subpar and the soundman had it sounding fabulous!

In November I worked with a young soundman who told me " I have practically no experience doing this but I know the system pretty well.Tell me what you need and who does what and I'll do my best". He had it sounding great by the 2nd number with no soundcheck.This was not a great PA either.

You can learn a lot from the good ones.We almost always bring our own soundman.This isn't a hard and fast rule but I've found the best sound people usually play music themselves.

 

[Stumbo]

"I've met exactly 3 guys who knew what a bass should sound like, and you're not one of them"

It may be true. If it is true, dismissing someone out of hand can be sustaining your ignorance.

I'm just sayin'

Here are a few links to check out that may increase your FOH intelligence:
~FOH
Working with the "sound guy"
Cheap vs. Expensive DI
1 Learn live sound mixing
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
Link Removed
Frequency ranges of band instruments
EQ primer (all instruments)
FOH vs. on-stage sound

Isolating Head/Cabs from stage/each other
Best wireless?

 

[Stumbo]

OP, go do some home recordings with your band. Without changing any effects or anything, really listen to the sound that's coming out. How audible are you? You all probably need a tone change.

In the studio, we discovered that both of my guitarists had way too much going on in the low-end and a lot of my bass and mids suffered because of it. I asked my guitarists to turn down the bass in their tones (that's what I'm for) and then I used a spectrum analyzer to quickly figure out which frequencies I needed to boost so that I could be audible and fill the spectrum without stepping on toes.

Our live sound has drastically improved, and if the FOH is bad, it's beyond our control.

Douchey thing for him to say outright, but it may not be without merit.

+1

 

[JoshB]

since folks cannot play nice around here...closed. Let's leave the Nazi references at home next time folks. Way to get a thread closed.