Finally an affordable signal blender!

[JCooper]

Yes yes...I like.
(please keep praising it, I've almost into funding justification mode....)

 

[catcauphonic]

If you are asking me, then no, but strongly considering buying one.

Right now I use my trusted Boss LS-2, but using more than 1 pedal in the effects loop that I don't use for clean blend I could really need more independent loops.

The EHX seems like the perfect solution for that to me.

I really wish the Boss LS-2 would have had a separate clean blend, so I wouldn't have to use one of it's 2 effects loops for that.

Not asking only you JohnA,

I'm curious why EHX's Switchblade Pro isn't getting any love around here? It's features seem to fall in between the LS-2, and the much larger & slightly pricier TPM

Investigating online, I found it DOES have the phase inversion on both loops via internals. Fortunately I've never had an issue with PI as far as I can tell, and I have a mix of a few older & newer fuzz pedals going into it and my LS2 on 2 diff boards.

 

[smeet]

Not asking only you JohnA,

I'm curious why EHX's Switchblade Pro isn't getting any love around here? It's features seem to fall in between the LS-2, and the much larger & slightly pricier TPM

View attachment 3572513

Investigating online, I found it DOES have the phase inversion on both loops via internals. Fortunately I've never had an issue with PI as far as I can tell, and I have a mix of a few older & newer fuzz pedals going into it and my LS2 on 2 diff boards.

I have one of these, it works great. Two loops, switchable serial/parallel, nice and quiet. And amazingly small too.

 

[Feral Feline]

Question regarding the SB...

Is there such a thing as one (that isn't a digital multi unit) that can reverse the order of your effects in a given loop? I don't even see how that's possible, but I thought I had glimpsed something to that 'effect' at a time when I wasn't really paying much attention to effects.

I don't know about the SwitchBlade, but yes there are non-digital pedals that can switch the order of 2 pedals/loops, so A>B becomes B>A. Same concept applies to how some pedals have pre/post EQ.

Here's but one example from Loop-Master.




That Old Blood... very GAS inducing...

 

[smeet]

I don't know about the SwitchBlade, but yes there are non-digital pedals that can switch the order of 2 pedals/loops, so A>B becomes B>A. Same concept applies to how some pedals have pre/post EQ.

Here's but one example from Loop-Master.




That Old Blood... very GAS inducing...

I think the question might have been about reversing the order within a loop. And no, I don’t think that’s possible.

 

[Feral Feline]

I think the question might have been about reversing the order within a loop. And no, I don’t think that’s possible.

What if you add another switcher-looper within a/the loop? What am I missing? LemmeSee if the TB-formatting holds together for this...

^\/------------<>------------\/^​

BASS > SwitchBlade IN >CH-A > FX-A > FX-B > ORDER SWITCHER > FX-C > Switchblade OUT > AMP

> CH-B > FX-W > FX-X > FX-Y > > > > > > > > > > > ^​

So, with an order switcher placed amongst the FX in CH-A of the Switchblade, you can swap from B>C to C>B, and you could add more pedals to each in/out of the order switcher to have, say FXs B C D E swap place with FXs P Q R...
B>C>D>E >> P>Q>R
becomes
P>Q>R >> B>C>D>E.


There's a project on GGG called the Translocator. This PDF explains how it works. It might even permit swapping out E for X in the above scenario, so swapping an effect or effects from one channel of the SwitchBlade to the other — but I haven't thought this one through yet, it's been a while since I was last obsessed with the Translocator pedal...


I also found this old post in another thread... 1590A loop order-switcheroo. WHoley Crepe, that's four years ago! I think I was just about to get up the nerve to do some damage with a solder-iron then. Nothin's changed much.


So, am I still misinterpreting the question?

 

[catcauphonic]

What if you add another switcher-looper within a/the loop? What am I missing? LemmeSee if the TB-formatting holds together for this...

^\/------------<>------------\/^​

BASS > SwitchBlade IN >CH-A > FX-A > FX-B > ORDER SWITCHER > FX-C > Switchblade OUT > AMP

> CH-B > FX-W > FX-X > FX-Y > > > > > > > > > > > ^​

So, with an order switcher placed amongst the FX in CH-A of the Switchblade, you can swap from B>C to C>B, and you could add more pedals to each in/out of the order switcher to have, say FXs B C D E swap place with FXs P Q R...
B>C>D>E >> P>Q>R
becomes
P>Q>R >> B>C>D>E.


There's a project on GGG called the Translocator. This PDF explains how it works. It might even permit swapping out E for X in the above scenario, so swapping an effect or effects from one channel of the SwitchBlade to the other — but I haven't thought this one through yet, it's been a while since I was last obsessed with the Translocator pedal...


I also found this old post in another thread... 1590A loop order-switcheroo. WHoley Crepe, that's four years ago! I think I was just about to get up the nerve to do some damage with a solder-iron then. Nothin's changed much.


So, am I still misinterpreting the question?

Thanks for both of your attempted replies (I'll need to reread, maybe a few times ) this quoted one to see if it indeed does. But I appreciate the research and effort.

@smeet knew what I was ax'n... to put it simpler I was inquiring about reversing the orders of any pedals in a given loop (examp: from fuzz ---> dist ---> drive, to drive ---> dist ---> fuzz, all 3 of which are in the same loop.) I don't even see how it's possible, as it would mean the output of the fuzz, etc turning into an input. I thought I'd glanced something to that effect during a discussion I wasn't a part of, but maybe it was somebody saying they wished there was such a thing.

At any rate @Feral Feline since getting my LS2 I've been enamored with the options it opened up on my board. Feels like it transformed a board of 8 boxes into a dozen or more by running things in parallel, and in my head started to wonder if using more than one LS-2 (type pedal) on a large board would open up further sonic possibilities (mostly just for curiosities sake.) I'd have to sit down with a pencil and paper to work it all out. Just thinking about it makes my head spin a bit.

Speaking of head spinning now that I'm finally properly caffeinated for the day, I'm going back to reread your post regarding the order switcher and translocator

Thanks again!

 

[220_Hz]

Thanks for both of your attempted replies (I'll need to reread, maybe a few times ) this quoted one to see if it indeed does. But I appreciate the research and effort.

@smeet knew what I was ax'n... to put it simpler I was inquiring about reversing the orders of any pedals in a given loop (examp: from fuzz ---> dist ---> drive, to drive ---> dist ---> fuzz, all 3 of which are in the same loop.) I don't even see how it's possible, as it would mean the output of the fuzz, etc turning into an input. I thought I'd glanced something to that effect during a discussion I wasn't a part of, but maybe it was somebody saying they wished there was such a thing.

At any rate @Feral Feline since getting my LS2 I've been enamored with the options it opened up on my board. Feels like it transformed a board of 8 boxes into a dozen or more by running things in parallel, and in my head started to wonder if using more than one LS-2 (type pedal) on a large board would open up further sonic possibilities (mostly just for curiosities sake.) I'd have to sit down with a pencil and paper to work it all out. Just thinking about it makes my head spin a bit.

Speaking of head spinning now that I'm finally properly caffeinated for the day, I'm going back to reread your post regarding the order switcher and translocator

Thanks again!

I think the VFE Klein bottle can do this

 

[Feral Feline]

@catcauphonic

I've "constructed" a virtual mobile for you, here's how it works...

For the sake of argument, let's suppose you have a Boost, an OD and a Fuzz you want to swap out the orders of within a chain (can be in a loop of your LS-2 or Switchblade, but all 3 pedals must be in the same chain/loop).

You plug the Boost into an order switcher's CH-A
You plug the Fuzz AND Overdrive into CH-B
However, both the Fuzz and OD are on their OWN SEPARATE SWAPPERERTHINGER.

You can then have the boost before or after the [Fuzz&OD]
or
You can have the boost before or after the [OD&Fuzz]...

SO, if you were to make a mobile and hang the pedals above a kid's crib upside down...

B = Boost
OD=overdrive, natch
F=Fuzz

You could have the following combinations (ignore the dots, they're just there to try and keep formatting in place 'cause TB's bots erase repeated spaces:

B..........OD____F
|_________|
.........|

Boost > OD > Fuzz


then stomp on the order-swapper switch for the Fuzz and OD...

..B...........F____OD
..|_________|
..........|

Boost > Fuzz > OD


Now you stomp on the boost's orderswapperopper...

OD____F.........B
......|________|
..............|

OD > Fuzz > Boost



And lastly you stomp on the Fuzz/OD swapper again

F___OD........B
........|_______|
...............|

Fuzz > OD > Boost


I worked on this for a long time a couple of years ago trying to come up with a way for ANY combination to be possible, but to put the Boost in between the Fuzz and OD is beyond my abilities with basic DIY switchcraft.

You could instead, for example, put the Boost and the Fuzz together with the Overdrive satellite-ing around them, but then you'll never have the OD betwixt the Boost & Fuzz — there is always some sequence that is not available, so I figured for me, having the Fuzz & OD being able to swap, and then having the boost before or after them, was the way to go for me.

Now, what if you were to put FOUR effects into THREE order swappers...

1) BOOST & FLANGER on a swapper
2) Swapping with ...
3) FUZZ & OD together again on their own switcherootoo

Begats the following combinations of signal chainage:

Boost > Flanger > Fuzz > OD
Boost > Flanger > OD > Fuzz
Fuzz > OD > Boost > Flanger
Fuzz > OD > Flanger > Boost
OD > Fuzz > Flanger > Boost
OD > Fuzz > Boost > Flanger

Man, there are some craptastic animated gifs out there; I tried to find one to best illustrate my idea — this one almost does it, but of course the top hanger should be rotating, too.


I'll be attempting to build up a Klein Bottle in a few months time, but the boost/OD/Fuzz(&Flanger) scenario above could be done without all the Klein's bells and whistles for just straight-forward order swapping with two(or3) switches and a bunch of jacks all wired together into a box.

PS: Of Course you can sub out the single pedals such as boost or flanger or WHATevahhh, for another whole group/chain of pedals.

Boost > Fuzz > Flanger Delay Reverb
Fuzz > Flanger Delay Reverb > Boost
etc > etc
or
etc > etc

 

[Bob_Ross]

I think the VFE Klein bottle can do this

As I contended (with a rather low level of confidence) in this thread

Take a look at the block diagram here and read the description of how the Feedback controls work. I get the impression that through a particular setting of the Feedback controls -- at least one of which would have to be all the way up (CW) and another of which would have to be all the way down (CCW) you would in effect have reversed the order of those two loops...I think.

But the more I look at that block diagram the more unsure of that I am.
The Klein Bottle is essentially a mixer, with three effects loops and the ability to feed the output (receive) of any one loop into the input (send) of any other. Your originating signal goes into the Klein Bottle and is then distributed in parallel to all three loops...so I'm not sure what condition of all knobs and switches would be required to have a purely serial signal path from Bass>Loop1>Loop2>amp without also having some Bass signal hitting Loop2 directly. Will need to think about it some more

...or just buy a Klein Bottle and work it out. Which is seeming more and more likely.

 

[Feral Feline]

The thing with the Klein Bottle is that you CAN route and re-route the signal as described, serially.

You'd kill the parallel dry signal and just send the series-dry on to the 3 channels, and kill all the other parallel signals in such a way as to simply be routing the signal in the order you want to have your serial chain, say: Dry>1>3>2>out.

You're playing along and "Uhoh, it's re-route time..."

Then you fiddle with the in/out knobs on each channel to re-order the signal to: Dry>2>1>3>out.


As powerful as the Klein Bottle is, it CANNOT do that re-ordering on-the-fly with a mere stomp or two. The stompers are simply adding or subtracting their assigned channel, not re-ordering.


So if you want to quickly change your wah-before-dirt to wah-after-dirt, you need to do-wah-diddy-do that pedal-order-swapper utility pedal thang and get stompin' instead of knob twirlin'.

 

[Bob_Ross]

As powerful as the Klein Bottle is, it CANNOT do that re-ordering on-the-fly with a mere stomp or two.

Oh yeah, totally the Wrong Tool For The Job if you're looking for preset-able & instantaneously recall-able routing options. To my mind it's one of those stompboxes that almost deserves to be on a table so you can knob-twiddle in realtime to create dynamically changing sounds rather than toe-tap to execute scene changes.

So if you want to quickly change your wah-before-dirt to wah-after-dirt, you need to do-wah-diddy-do that pedal-order-swapper utility pedal thang and get stompin' instead of knob twirlin'.

Right. For simple (ha!) order-swapping a bare-bones flip-flop pedal -- or two; see this thread for my amusing and ultimately gratifying foray into that rabbit hole -- is going to be way more direct than any of the parallel blenders.

 

[Feral Feline]

I remember that thread! I've got it bookmarked and DL'd your block diagram, too!

Totally agree on the Klein being a Table-Top wunder-unit.


My ideal setup would be a master switcher router on the floor (a couple of G2s or ES-8s) with about 5 expression-pedals, and all my main FX pedals in a keyboard case on a keyboard stand for mid-performance knob twiddling.

Yeah, some day. Maybe after I learn how to play...

 

[catcauphonic]

@catcauphonic

I've "constructed" a virtual mobile for you, here's how it works...

For the sake of argument, let's suppose you have a Boost, an OD and a Fuzz you want to swap out the orders of within a chain (can be in a loop of your LS-2 or Switchblade, but all 3 pedals must be in the same chain/loop).

You plug the Boost into an order switcher's CH-A
You plug the Fuzz AND Overdrive into CH-B
However, both the Fuzz and OD are on their OWN SEPARATE SWAPPERERTHINGER.

You can then have the boost before or after the [Fuzz&OD]
or
You can have the boost before or after the [OD&Fuzz]...

SO, if you were to make a mobile and hang the pedals above a kid's crib upside down...

B = Boost
OD=overdrive, natch
F=Fuzz

You could have the following combinations (ignore the dots, they're just there to try and keep formatting in place 'cause TB's bots erase repeated spaces:

B..........OD____F
|_________|
.........|

Boost > OD > Fuzz


then stomp on the order-swapper switch for the Fuzz and OD...

..B...........F____OD
..|_________|
..........|

Boost > Fuzz > OD


Now you stomp on the boost's orderswapperopper...

OD____F.........B
......|________|
..............|

OD > Fuzz > Boost



And lastly you stomp on the Fuzz/OD swapper again

F___OD........B
........|_______|
...............|

Fuzz > OD > Boost


I worked on this for a long time a couple of years ago trying to come up with a way for ANY combination to be possible, but to put the Boost in between the Fuzz and OD is beyond my abilities with basic DIY switchcraft.

You could instead, for example, put the Boost and the Fuzz together with the Overdrive satellite-ing around them, but then you'll never have the OD betwixt the Boost & Fuzz — there is always some sequence that is not available, so I figured for me, having the Fuzz & OD being able to swap, and then having the boost before or after them, was the way to go for me.

Now, what if you were to put FOUR effects into THREE order swappers...

1) BOOST & FLANGER on a swapper
2) Swapping with ...
3) FUZZ & OD together again on their own switcherootoo

Begats the following combinations of signal chainage:

Boost > Flanger > Fuzz > OD
Boost > Flanger > OD > Fuzz
Fuzz > OD > Boost > Flanger
Fuzz > OD > Flanger > Boost
OD > Fuzz > Flanger > Boost
OD > Fuzz > Boost > Flanger

Man, there are some craptastic animated gifs out there; I tried to find one to best illustrate my idea — this one almost does it, but of course the top hanger should be rotating, too.


I'll be attempting to build up a Klein Bottle in a few months time, but the boost/OD/Fuzz(&Flanger) scenario above could be done without all the Klein's bells and whistles for just straight-forward order swapping with two(or3) switches and a bunch of jacks all wired together into a box.

PS: Of Course you can sub out the single pedals such as boost or flanger or WHATevahhh, for another whole group/chain of pedals.

Boost > Fuzz > Flanger Delay Reverb
Fuzz > Flanger Delay Reverb > Boost
etc > etc
or
etc > etc

Your posts always give really good detail, and I appreciate you taking the time. This one in particular really takes the 'Explain it to me as if I were a child' to the next level with the virtual mobile in there

I checked out the Translocator site and although it looks cool, it has no virtual mobile and therefore assembly is a bit over my head

Looking forward to reading about it when your Klein Bottle order switcheroo mad scientist project is complete (or better yet in the works should you choose to document it here )

 

[Feral Feline]

I try not to be pedantic...


Here's another signal mangler, affordability is relative and I find it relatively expensive:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

It's meant to mix quadrophonic soundscapes, of course, but of course we'd use this workhorse for our own nefarious purpose.

@Bob_Ross I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Koma Poltergeist — could you would you should you use it?

 

[Bob_Ross]

@Bob_Ross I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the Koma Poltergeist — could you would you should you use it?

Whoa... that looks pretty deep. I can definitely envision some serious mayhem -- as well as serious option anxiety -- with the full matrixing capabilities of a processor like that. But one of the ideas I'm leaning towards though is that a lot of these new Parallel Loop Blender Gizmos do stuff that would be better served by a modest mixing console with 3 or 4 aux sends and a handful of busses...and probably for less money.

 

[Snaxster]

Question regarding the SB...

Is there such a thing as one (that isn't a digital multi unit) that can reverse the order of your effects in a given loop? I don't even see how that's possible, but I thought I had glimpsed something to that 'effect' at a time when I wasn't really paying much attention to effects.

In addition to the suggestions others already made (and as a Klein Bottle owner, I believe that it will not do this), there are three approaches offered by American Loopers:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

standalone pedal order switcher pedal

premade loopers with flip flop (like this example, among others)​

 

[RissKippery]

Just saw that signal blender is $109 through Old Blood. I suggest getting one!

 

[Somanytoys]

I was also going to post that the Klein Bottle is great at this, and was probably one of the first, if not the first. Now there are quite a few.

It can’t swap the order on the fly with a switch, but that’s something that I don’t really need. I have a Decibel 11 Pedal Pallette that will do that, if I wanted. I don’t remember if DB11’s Switch Dr does that or not.

What the KB can do well is allow the signal flow to be routed all over the place between themselves, or cut out the one effect’s signal but still send it to another effect, so that you only hear the first effect blended with the other effect. It’s pretty crazy, but I haven’t delved that deep into it for my uses.

The only drawback at all to the Klein Bottle really is that only the first channel has a phase inverter - at least on my first run models, Peter may have changed that since. That is also cool to be able to make an effect go fully wet, that otherwise won’t.

I use one to control my effects on my bassboard. Once you have things set where you want them, it’s just using the switches. It is a tabletop mixer if you want to constantly adjust things, it depends on what you want to do.

It’s pretty unbeatable for what it‘s able to do. It’s more pricey than the others, but VFE pedals are very well made. I have bought a lot of them.

 

[Albino RyNo]

Just saw that signal blender is $109 through Old Blood. I suggest getting one!

I'm about to pull the trigger on the Old Blood for sure! Especially at that price and especially after reading the negative reviews on Sweetwater about the EHX Tri Parallel Mixer.

Couple of questions for @RissKippery , do you notice any noise in the loops? Any low end loss?