• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Finding a new band? How much to say up front?

N

nsmar4211

Nov 11, 2007
1,016
8
#1
After the holidays I'm wanting to start looking for a new band. I was debating on putting up a CL ad, but thus far all the bands in my local CL have been either original non-gigging groups or teenage punk, neither of which I'm interested in.

Would it be too much to say what I'm *not* looking for in a CL ad?
If I just say "bass player looking" it'll take me forever to weed through...

Basically, I'm looking for a professional minded, playing for pay, sober and straight, mature players in a genre I can stomach. I have my own equipment and transport, I show up early, etc. However, I don't want to be in a band that takes less than $100 a man for a local gig, and I'm done with doing "for exposure" gigs.

My possible low points are I'm not a lightning fast learner like some I know (master of cheat sheets though), I can't play by ear yet, I have a 8-5pm job M-F so early gigs require notice, and I don't have the huge classic rock repitoire everyone else seems to have (probably because they grew up with it....I'm in my 30's). I'd need about a month to play 40 new songs (unless I already knew some of them), so I'm not jump right in ready although I'd try (I've done a couple last minute oh-man-what-was-I-thinking gigs though that went well)! I have no samples of my playing other than two 1/8th note type songs to show, even though I tried to get some recordings at shows-my past few groups have been cover bands.

Would any of this be things not to mention in a CL ad?? Or mention it all?

I already plan on contacting everyone I know in the biz and tell them I'm looking again:). I thought about open mics, but on bass I'd look silly and my guitar playing isn't quite up to snuff..... there's a couple of jams that I plan on poking my head into after the new year, but not too enthusiastic about finding a group there.... Any advice?
 
#2
IMO, putting what you want and don't want, to a degree, is great. Saves you, and potential bad-fit bands, time and hassle.
I wouldn't be too forthcoming about your self-perceived shortcomings - that can come in conversation.
Make some connections and have fun.
 
#3
It helps to be upfront and honest about what you want to do in a band, but don't come off as if you have a chip on your shoulder. If you say you won't play exposure gigs or play for less than $100 per gig you'll probably end up turning some people off because it sounds a little arrogant. In my experiences, it also helps to keep things thorough but short. It's amazing how many more responses I'll get for an ad that's only 3-4 sentences vs something that's 6-12. The ads will say roughly the same thing, but it seems like people have short attention spans and won't bother with things that might take a minute longer to read.
 
#4
jmattbassplaya said:
If you say you won't play exposure gigs or play for less than $100 per gig you'll probably end up turning some people off because it sounds a little arrogant.
Click to expand...
Not to me it wouldn't ... it just sounds honest. I get inquiries often, usually at gigs, along the lines of "would you like play with my band?". The reply, "Maybe. Where and how often do you practice, where and how often do you work, and what does it pay?". It's usually followed by some hemmin' and hawin' ... which tells me it isn't anything I'd be interested in. Play for exposure? Not interested unless the music is something I'd play for free in my kitchen, I don't have to drive a gazillion miles to some dive, AND I don't have to haul any gear. Been playing too long to get any thrills from just being on stage.

The OP sounds like he's looking for a spot that may be somewhat above his level. Fine, that's how we get better, the challenge is good for us. But placing too many conditions AND being limited in ability usually doesn't get the gig.
 
#5
It's not that I'm necessarily limited in ability, it's more like I've not been playing bass for 30 years so I don't have the song list that a lot of the players here do :). And with a full time job it takes me longer to learn 40 songs than someone who does nothing all day-but with the help of a binder I did 40 in three weeks in my last group.

As to the arrogant for not wanting to play for less than standard rate, well, it's a business. I played a lot of gigs for less than $100 and playing for minimum wage is quite frankly a waste of time. First gig at a place to prove the band is a fit? Sure, play for less a man. Every week? Then the venue is taking advantage of you, or it's just too small/slow for a full band. If someone else was providing all the equipment and I didn't have to do anything but show up with my bass, that might be different. But when you've got to haul a rig, and in the case of my last band, half the PA all the lights and all the cables...then you factor in wear and tear on equipment...less than $100 for 4 hours is just not worth it. Not to mention bands playing for $50 a man is partially what's killing the scene around here...bar owners blame the economy but they've all raised their drink/food prices...
/soapbox

So, keep it short, and wait until the first conversation to bring up "how much do you play for?"...So far so good :).

I forgot about the practice question.....had one band call me but their second weekly practice was saturday night...and it was always twice a week practice even after the setlist was down... sorry, but that's a bit much once the band is settled. And I got the hem and haw on how often do they want to gig...

Another thing, do I bring up that I don't want to deal with anyone who drinks heavily? I would be mortified if I did a gig and the band got drunk around me! Is that something to put in an ad, or something you ask on first conversation?

It sounds like I have high standards......but I hold myself to those same standards and want to be with like minded people :).
 
#7
I listed a pretty detailed ad (material, scheduling, etc.). It took almost a year (!) to find what I was looking for, but there were no false starts or misconceptions. The first group I met up with, we clicked.
 
#9
If you're on Craigslist, I would say as little as possible. Say something like "experienced bass player looking for a band" or something like that.

You'll get more calls that way. Once you're on the phone, or email or whatever you can be more specific. Even then, I would keep fairly general.

I think I'm right about this. Too much info. up front is just a turn off.
 
#10
This is what I get out of the OP ( however, I could be wrong....) :eek:

I'm in my thirties and kinda burnt out because there are only a few types of music I can stand any more, I cant' stand stoned/drunk, younger musicians with too much ego and I really don't want to haul a lot of equipment anymore. Based on those things, I'm switching to "mature" musicians, most of whom play classic rock even though I have little experience and less of a song book in the genre.

Also, since I can't play by ear, I'm not really flexible on learning songs or jamming but I can learn a specific set list given enough time. I don't have the huge classic rock repertoire everyone else seems to have.....unfortunately for me, a lot of the players here do...(probably because they grew up with it....I'm in my 30's). On the plus side, I am a "master of cheat sheets".

Even though I've been playing awhile and done some gigs, I cannot play enough songs from memory or know enough blues to play at a classic rock/blues open mic night....because on bass I'd look silly....my guitar playing is even less practiced.

In addition, because of my 8-5 M-F day job I am not able to quit, I only want to gig with a band that has pretty much the same set list every week because my time is limited as far as rehearsal. I want to rehearse as little as possible (after learning the set list). Maybe we can rehearse once in awhile to add a couple of new songs.

If I could just bring my bass(maybe someone else could load-/load-out all the other equipment because I'm tired), I'd be more flexible in what type of gigs I would play(for less pay).

Based on many threads/posts from our TB brethren I've read over the past few years , my suggestions are:
1) Get a light weight rig so you have a one trip load/in - load/out. Bass guitar/micro head(min 500 watts) in gig bag with a neo 2x12 should take care of just about any gig (add a second cab if you need too-still a one trip load/in-out). You might want to check out: Micro-rigs of doom
2) Get a car just large enough to haul your own stuff. Don't volunteer for anything more.
3) Learn to play by ear (that's a biggie) and sing.
4) Make detailed enough "cheat sheets" for a few hundred "classic rock" songs. Also, check out local venues and write up the set lists of the groups that are similar to the group you would like to be in. Here are some more links you may want to check out:
Essential 60's songs
Top 100 songs by year 1950-2009
5) Learn the blues and as much music theory as possible
6) Since you do play some guitar, I suggest that you learn as many chords as possible, be able to play rhythm on all the songs you know on bass and be able to sing the melody of each tune the best that you are able. Indicate all the song's chords on your cheat sheets, not just the applicable for that bass.

FWIW, I've been where you are.

When you're limited to a specific situation, you may not easily find the situation that fits you well. Since you're looking for professional minded musicians, many who will know hundreds of songs, they may not want to be limited to just the songs you've recently practiced. Many will not only want you to sing backup vocals but expect it, at the minimum.

The more well rounded and knowledgeable about everything musical you are, the less limitations you'll have to place on what you're looking for, especially when you make the statement: I already plan on contacting everyone I know in the biz and tell them I'm looking again.

Consider that being in a band, IMO, should not just be considered a "business" but also situation where you have FUN. If you're not having enough fun and having too much stress, maybe getting a part-time job in another field would be more steady/lucrative and less stressful, especially when you consider all the hours you need to put into a band outside of the gig. From your post, it seems like you're happy with your musical skills and don't really want to or can't put in extra hours on your own improving them.

On a personal note, I totally understand about working, rehearsal and gigging taking up your time. It does get tiring and can definitely wear you out.

A couple of things that I'm now doing that I wish had known about when I was your age and moving towards middle age:

1) Take supplements for Vitamin D3 (since most of us don't get enough sun) and a vitamin B complex, which can get depleted over time due to stress and not eating a perfect diet. IME, most multivitamins don't give you enough by themselves. I'm taking 1000 iu of liquid D3 per day. Also a B complex, along with other B vitamins, has a lot more B12. From what I understand, B12 is water soluble so you pee out any extra. D3 is stored by your body so taking a huge amount daily may not be the best thing to do.

Based on my recent experience with these supplements, my short term memory and my general recall have improved dramatically in just the past few months. I have, not only more energy but, at the end of the day, I'm not totally exhausted. I'm calmer and get less irritated by the small things.

Maybe this is something to look into. The supplements are inexpensive and possibly worth a try. Note: please see a professional before taking any supplements.

2) get 8 hours of good sleep every night even though you are able to make it through the day on less. Not getting enough sleep daily, over time, it will wear on your body and cause problems for you as you get older, just the same as not getting enough vitamins.

If you're interested in an excellent book on fatigue, check out: Fatigued to Fantastic by Dr. Jacob Teitalbaum

Good luck with your search for a new band and music in general.
 
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
#11
MNAirHead said:
I'd rather have folks pass on me than waste my time...
Click to expand...

^ Right here. I detail all my experience and what I am looking for in an add with the type of music and artists I like to play. This worked for me in the past. It weeds out the losers,flakes,kids and wanna-bee's or should at least cut them down.
I wouldnt put down how much money you expect and never think thats a good idea when approaching a band.
I also have a schedule like yours and find it hard to get time to practice etc, but there are bands out there that will expect a bassist to jump in and keep them giging. I have learned 40+ songs in two weeks more than once.
 
#12
I am in the same boat as you, but am significantly older than you.

I guess it depends on your area.

I think looking for a working band that does 100.00 a man shows is reasonable. however in Milwaukee if you are not an insider with vocals, getting in with those bands is almost imposible.

Take your time until the right opportunity comes along. Don't make the mistakes I made.


Taking an offer from a band where the commute to rehearsals one way is well over an hour.

Getting involved with start ups, 9 out of 10 of these start up bands will never see their first gig.

blue
 
#13
Stumbo said:
This is what I get out of the OP ( however, I could be wrong....) :eek:

I'm in my thirties and kinda burnt out because there are only a few types of music I can stand any more, I cant' stand stoned/drunk, younger musicians with too much ego and I really don't want to haul a lot of equipment anymore. Based on those things, I'm switching to "mature" musicians, most of whom play classic rock even though I have little experience and less of a song book in the genre.

Also, since I can't play by ear, I'm not really flexible on learning songs or jamming but I can learn a specific set list given enough time. I don't have the huge classic rock repertoire everyone else seems to have.....unfortunately for me, a lot of the players here do...(probably because they grew up with it....I'm in my 30's). On the plus side, I am a "master of cheat sheets".

Even though I've been playing awhile and done some gigs, I cannot play enough songs from memory or know enough blues to play at a classic rock/blues open mic night....because on bass I'd look silly....my guitar playing is even less practiced.

In addition, because of my 8-5 M-F day job I am not able to quit, I only want to gig with a band that has pretty much the same set list every week because my time is limited as far as rehearsal. I want to rehearse as little as possible (after learning the set list). Maybe we can rehearse once in awhile to add a couple of new songs.

I am a little suprised Stumbo, I think your response is arogent and rude. All the guy is doing is trying to avoid a lot of the BS that is out there that you obviously never have to deal with.

blue
Click to expand...
 
#14
I used CL last fall and ultimately had a good experience with it. Two of the contacts things didn't work out with have turned out to be people who I keep in regular contact with. One was a guitarist who didn't want to wait to play out. The other was a drummer whose band chose another bass player before we got together and then disintegrated a few weeks later.

I started off with a modest desire to just start playing again. I didn't really want to get into a working band, but I adjusted and ended up joining a band that was ready to play out immediately.

Here's the ad text I used -

____________

Bassist seeking others - guitarist, drummer, keys?

I have a bass, warehouse space in Columbia, and a desire to get back into playing.

I'm 44 and started playing bass when I was about 11. I played in a few local bands from my early teens to my early twenties. Mostly rock and pop/rock covers (Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Judas Priest, Foghat, Tom Petty, Police. Eric Clapton, Santana, Doobie Brothers, Van Halen, etc.). I've recently decided to pick it back up.

I'd like to put something together to jam/practice probably once a week (on weekends).

Right now, my interest is in playing to knock the rust off and try to make some enjoyable noise with a group. I don't have an agenda beyond that. If something develops into playing out on occasion, that's fine, but developing something that's just good weekend fun would be fine too.

In terms of listening, like a wide variety of music -- Rock, Pop, Jazz, Folk-Rock, R&B, Rap (a little). To give an idea, most recent/frequent listens on my iPod - Root Boy Slim, Stevie Wonder, Police, Citizen Cope, Black-Eyed Peas, Kings of Leon, Obadiah Parker, Rush, Smithereens, Tal Wilkenfeld. I'm fairly open as to what I'd be interested in playing now.

I'm looking forward to getting together with people who are in the same range of "seriousness" (i.e., weekend jamming/practicing for now) as opposed to the same age, level of experience, or highly specific musical interest.
_______

While I did get a lot of contact from similarly situated people, I couldn't put a whole group together at one time. So while it didn't seem like it from the outset, my initial goal was really more ambitious than I thought it was. That was frustrating at a couple of points, like one Saturday that I had put a group together and I was the only one to show up. A portion of CL contacts have no commitment behind them whatsoever (you just have to accept that).

I was contacted by several bands that didn't seem to really read my ad. Most were way too serious for me.

In the end it worked out perfectly though.

So, I'm a believer that CL posting can absolutely work for all kinds of situations. You have to be in the right place at the right time, and I think it helps if you're open to tweaking your outlook and goals as you go. In my opinion, put out as much positively framed information as you can. Let the weeding out process take care of itself. Deal with some of your "don't wants" and "not willings" after you've started a dialog. Some people will read your ad carefully and some won't. For the ones that do, I think you'll be at a better starting point.
 
#16
I would avoid all your list of conditions that are deal-breakers. Just say you're looking for a band, that you have a day job, but that you want a serious band going for paying gigs. Saying that you're a clean and sober player and that you'd need a month to get a 40-song setlist up and running is a pretty good way to tell a band what your capabilities are, and maybe to scare away the weekend pot-smokers-pretending-to-be-musicians club. Include your age and influences, briefly, for anyone who cares, some bands will and some won't.

I don't know where you are or how much demand there is for bassists there, but I really doubt that you're going to be buried in hundreds of responses begging you to play. Around here, I would guess you'd have five or six, and that's not going to take any extraordinary effort to tell the metal or punk or whatever bands you don't like "thanks but no thanks" and set up meetings with two or three that actually are promising. People kvetch about "wasting time" but answering an email isn't that hard to do.
 
#18
zachoff said:
I've always written short stories in my band/musician wanted ads, but I'm picky, short on time, and want to minimize the worthless tryouts/rehearsals.
Click to expand...

My experience for the past 4 months has been, most start up try oout and rehearsals are a waste of time. Mostly wanna bees and local has beens.

Working band are the ones you really want to shine at that 1st audition.
 
#19
bluewine said:
One was a guitarist who didn't want to wait to play out.

This is something that I will never understand. If a guy is in rock does not want to play out, why play at all?
Click to expand...

First of all, you misread what I wrote...the guy didn't want to WAIT to play out.

Secondly, why play at all? For the joy of it, that's why play at all.

While I can appreciate that for some people, the main drive behind playing is the desire to play in front of people, it seems unfortunate that so many of them look down their noses at people who don't have that same desire.

You say you'll never understand that. It's sad to me. I'd think that a real musician would be the first one to understand love of music for its own sake.
 
#20
bluewine said:
My experience for the past 4 months has been, most start up try oout and rehearsals are a waste of time. Mostly wanna bees and local has beens.

Working band are the ones you really want to shine at that 1st audition.
Click to expand...

It's funny...every working band was a start up at some point, so the idea that most start ups are wastes of time is in big part a logical fallacy. Someone long on ideas, knowledge and experience could put together a hot, made-to-order, stage-ready band in 4 months instead of completely discounting the building process and ending up a dissatisfied, frustrated square peg :rollno:

At the end of the day, who's the wannabe? Who's the has-been?
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back