ok, first of all, i am an electric bass player, and builder, and i have NO knowledge of uprights, AT ALL, except that theyre upright, and hollow. so my question is, have there ever, in the history of bass, ever been a fretted upright finger board?
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Double Bass finger board
- Thread starter vbasscustom
- Start date
ok cool, i was just wondering is there was such a thing, and i suppose if it sucked, i need one, hahaha
Please correct me if I am wrong...
I am also an electric bass player, but why does almost everyone think, that the double bass has something direct to do with the electric bass?
Since every instrument class having the different range of the "human voices"; bass, baritone, tenor, alto, mezzo-soprano, soprano.
The double bass has a complete different background. It's not a guitar!
A good German source is Alfred Planyavsky; "Geschichte des Kontrabasses"
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I am also an electric bass player, but why does almost everyone think, that the double bass has something direct to do with the electric bass?
Since every instrument class having the different range of the "human voices"; bass, baritone, tenor, alto, mezzo-soprano, soprano.
The double bass has a complete different background. It's not a guitar!
A good German source is Alfred Planyavsky; "Geschichte des Kontrabasses"
Invalid Link Removed
The old Gibson Mando-basses were fretted. The were tuned the same as a double bass and had the same function in a mandolin orchestra. Vega and a few other companies also made them. I can't say that they had the same tonal qualities or range...
Coming to the double bass from the guitar, my first thoughts were that frets would be a great addition. In a short time, my favorite aspect of the instrument became the lack of frets and endless possibilities it offers.
j.
Coming to the double bass from the guitar, my first thoughts were that frets would be a great addition. In a short time, my favorite aspect of the instrument became the lack of frets and endless possibilities it offers.
j.
exactly. Plus I personally can't generally stand the thirds of a fretted BG, or guitar for that matter.
BUT, how could you say double bass is not related to a bass guitar? BG was invented because DB players wanted an alternative to their uprights. Thus BG was invented so that a bass was transported easier, amplified easier, and easier to learn. They are both tuned in fourths of EADG and are transposing instruments from general bass clef.
How are they not directly related?
DB and BG are related only tangentially, not through lineage. One can't really pin down reasons "why" an instrument was "invented". "Invented" is a slippery word when used in discussing the history of musical instruments. It's more useful to speak of the instrument in terms of adoption and usage, rather than genesis. When Fender began to mass-produce the P-bass in '51, it caught on for a variety of reasons. At the time electric guitars and amplification technology was advancing to the point where it became difficult to hear the bass during performances - music was getting louder, audiences larger - the limitations of using a microphone for the DB are well-known (esp. back then). The BG was an easy and affordable solution to this. Also, when a band was in a pinch, it was often easier for an available guitarist to switch to BG than it was to find an actual bassist. The standard BG is just a longer electric guitar with thicker strings tuned an octave lower than the lower 4 strings.
I owned one...... It sucks
Could you explain.
So far I have thought of the following reasons that frets are not an advantage:
1. No vibrato
2. No growl
3. No quarter steps (who cares)
4. No smooth slides
5. The third is slightly out of tune
6. It looks strange
And the following benefits:
1. Mostly (more) in tune
2. Easier to play
3. Quicker to learn
3. Louder
4. Faster to play
So could you expand on the idea of "sucks". Thanks!
P.S. - I have seen some pictures of some commercial fretted bass designs. They tended to have a guitar bridge and a rigid tailpiece like an arch-top guitar. This is a design that does not transmit string energy to the body very efficiently. Also the body appeared to be about half the volume (size) of a db. It is no wonder they ceased to exist.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
It's hard to explain why any kind of instrument is not widely made. That's like "proving a negative."
I started on 'cello before getting an electric bass. The frets were a nuisance, so I yanked them out and filled the slots with Plastic Wood. Later attempts to play fretted electric were embarrassing failures. Granted, I could probably learn it with enough effort.
But is a fretted bass inherently easier? That's impossible to judge. The instrument with the quicker learning curve at the beginning, might be harder to master at the advanced level. Faster? That depends too much on who is faster and what they are playing.
Intonation is certainly a skill, but I don't know if it is the primary obstacle to learning the DB. The rapid learning curve for the electric bass is not only due to the design of the instrument, but also the music that is typically played and the way that bands are organized.
I started on 'cello before getting an electric bass. The frets were a nuisance, so I yanked them out and filled the slots with Plastic Wood. Later attempts to play fretted electric were embarrassing failures. Granted, I could probably learn it with enough effort.
But is a fretted bass inherently easier? That's impossible to judge. The instrument with the quicker learning curve at the beginning, might be harder to master at the advanced level. Faster? That depends too much on who is faster and what they are playing.
Intonation is certainly a skill, but I don't know if it is the primary obstacle to learning the DB. The rapid learning curve for the electric bass is not only due to the design of the instrument, but also the music that is typically played and the way that bands are organized.
Oh boy... deep breath.
The double bass is neither a violin nor a viola da gamba... it's a family of one that has characteristics of both. It mostly developed out of the violin family, but by an extremely convoluted route that ended up blending in a bunch of things from gamba constructoin. The bow technique is based on violin conventions, even though what we call the German bow evolved out of the gamba bow.
Gambas had frets, since they themselves had evolved as a bowed guitar in Spain (yes, really). They mostly had six strings, were tuned in 4ths with a 3rd in the middle like quitars were at the time. The use of frets on bass violins continued until well into the 19th century in some places; it mostly depended on the availability of quality strings.
But by the time the double bass had more or less converged on modern tuning and construction in the early years of the 20th century, frets had been obsolete for about a hundred years. There's absolutely no need for them if you're using modern strings, and if you're using baroque strings you really ought to be using a rather different instrument.
The double bass is neither a violin nor a viola da gamba... it's a family of one that has characteristics of both. It mostly developed out of the violin family, but by an extremely convoluted route that ended up blending in a bunch of things from gamba constructoin. The bow technique is based on violin conventions, even though what we call the German bow evolved out of the gamba bow.
Gambas had frets, since they themselves had evolved as a bowed guitar in Spain (yes, really). They mostly had six strings, were tuned in 4ths with a 3rd in the middle like quitars were at the time. The use of frets on bass violins continued until well into the 19th century in some places; it mostly depended on the availability of quality strings.
But by the time the double bass had more or less converged on modern tuning and construction in the early years of the 20th century, frets had been obsolete for about a hundred years. There's absolutely no need for them if you're using modern strings, and if you're using baroque strings you really ought to be using a rather different instrument.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
- 607
- Disclosures
- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
Yup, she's a homely one, that's for sure, but it answers the OP's call for a cross-bred mongrel that's half DB and half fretted fingerboard that's played with a pick.
I seem to have a hazy memory about finding some footage of one of these in action on YouTube. Cool music too....
1st, bass guitar and double bass are linked, whether you like it or not, by playing one, you can get ideas on the other.
I find the main challenge for playing upright isn't the lack of frets but the amount of energy you have to put in. The strings are harder to push down and the space between notes is bigger and at a slightly more awkward angle.
I think frets would make it harder to play as they would get in the way of your hand position and the instrument wouldn't sound like a DB.
I find the main challenge for playing upright isn't the lack of frets but the amount of energy you have to put in. The strings are harder to push down and the space between notes is bigger and at a slightly more awkward angle.
I think frets would make it harder to play as they would get in the way of your hand position and the instrument wouldn't sound like a DB.
fdeck, you must be an exceptional musician.
I am not. It not impossible for me to judge whether it is easier for me to accurately place a finger upon a 1/64" point or a within a 3/4" range. You make a good point about intonation not being the only reason a DB is more difficult to learn than a BG.
For me, learning BG was simpler because frets make it attractive to use fingering patterns that are portable across keys. Conversely, my DB instructor gave be a raft of arpeggios to practice depending on the chord "because of the advantage of playing open strings". DB - weeks of practice vs. BG - a few hours learning patterns where one only changes the starting place. Also I understand that a good DB player strives to make the fingered notes sound (clear?) like the open strings (they are interspersed). Easy? I haven't even tried bowing and thumb position and likely won't.
So, are frets (patterns, intonation)the core difference? Will the longer string length make simpler BG methods unattainable? I know the right hand and the bulk of the instrument is part of the difficulty.
I don't want to upset the formal DB world here, but there is a cross-over contingent. I am looking for first-hand experience.
I am really interested if ANYONE has gotten up close and personal with a Fretted Double Bass and what they can relate about their experience.And if no one has, why assume it is a travesty. That is why I was trying to make a bankers list of advantages and disadvantages.
I may have to fret one to find out.
I have done a bit of work with one of the low tuning Gambas (because I was the only player available at the time who had used an underhand bow). It's a totally and completely different instrument, and pretty much only useful for baroque ensemble work. Fun, but not at all a substitute for a DB (nor is DB a particularly good substitute for a gamba... best there is among modern instruments though).
One of the problems with fretting a DB is that the instrument's pitch changes a lot with the amount of energy in the string; fretted BG players just accept this as a fact of life (no disrespect there, it's merely a fact, and is correct practice for the styles where BG is normally used), whereas the conventions for DB intonation require that you compensate by moving your stopping finger... that's a lot of the reason for vibrato. So there is no right position for a fret on a DB, unless you intend to only play quietly (and amplified, I wold presume).
One of the problems with fretting a DB is that the instrument's pitch changes a lot with the amount of energy in the string; fretted BG players just accept this as a fact of life (no disrespect there, it's merely a fact, and is correct practice for the styles where BG is normally used), whereas the conventions for DB intonation require that you compensate by moving your stopping finger... that's a lot of the reason for vibrato. So there is no right position for a fret on a DB, unless you intend to only play quietly (and amplified, I wold presume).
