Double Bass Fingerboard-eating gut strings

[flixbass]

Hello dear bassists,

from several comments on the forum i've learned that gut strings are generally viewed as more abrasive to fingerboards than steel strings.
Does anybody have first hand experience, whether this applies to both wound and plain gut strings? Which of the two is more abrasive?

I am asking because the fingerboards on both basses i made show no wear (just very slightly polished by the strings) and i wonder how long it might take. While N°2 is relatively new, N°1 has been played quite a lot. I play 90% arco. Both boards are epoxy coated. But so far i had only plain gut G/D/A with metal or synthetic E strings.

Best regards

Flix

 

[TheBassPreacher]

If your board is epoxy coated, I don't think much will wear through that any time soon. That being said, I really don't see how gut would wear through an ebony board quickly even without epoxy. Maybe if you were slapping a softer wood board like some kind of fake ebony or rosewood it would eventually just dent the board in but I don't know if I'd really see it happening playing standard arco or pizz.

 

[AGCurry]

from several comments on the forum i've learned that gut strings are generally viewed as more abrasive to fingerboards than steel strings.
Does anybody have first hand experience, whether this applies to both wound and plain gut strings? Which of the two is more abrasive?

It can be tempting to read a few comments and elevate them to "common knowledge."

I've read those comments. I can't dispute them, because I'm not the one with fingerboard ruts, but I don't share their view, because it hasn't happened to me.

What I can say confidently is that abrasive and hard aren't the same thing. Physics. Gut strings are more abrasive, because their surfaces are rougher; but whether they wear the fingerboard depends on the relative hardnesses of the string and the fingerboard, and the force and manner with which the two make contact.

If you have a good hard fingerboard and refrain from grinding your strings against it, it should last a long time. It will wear, as all things do, but there are luthiers and, ultimately, replacement fingerboards around to take care of that. It needn't be a factor in your choice of strings.

To your question regarding wound and plain gut strings: Guts wound with round wire will wear your fingerboard more quickly than plain guts; they are harder, and the force you apply in fingering is spread over less surface area. This surface-area factor, obviously, doesn't apply to "flat-wound" guts like Oliv and Eudoxa.

 

[LouisF]

+1 on what AGC said: I've had plain GDA guts with a Spiro(or similar) E/C for at least 6 years with no wear and tear on the board.

 

[Rebop]

I have some experience with this. My main bass got its rosewood fingerboard planed in the late 90s. I used spiros and helicores on it for a decade and the board was still pristine. After maybe 12 years with various plain and round wound guts, the ruts are so bad it's almost unplayable.
My backup bass with an ebony board has only had plain synthetic guts on it since I bought it (Chordes Lambert). The ruts aren't too bad on that bass, but there's definitely wear around the octave from slapping like a maniac 3-4 nights a week for 15+ years.
Finally, my third bass, it belonged to a big band thumper in the 40s and 50s. When I bought it, it had a combo of Artones and Red-O-Ray strings, and the strings were almost an inch high off the board. The ruts were comically deep on that one. The (very streaky) ebony board is already thin so the previous owner must have had it planed a few times in its life. I just planed that board this week and hopefully I'll get a decade out of it before it needs to be replaced, but I don't plan to use it for slapping gigs.

 

[AGCurry]

... slapping like a maniac 3-4 nights a week for 15+ years.

well...

 

[lurk]

The guys at Gage's shop told me years ago that guts were harder on fingerboards than steel. Bigger amplitude of vibration maybe?

 

[AGCurry]

There are many reasons to choose particular strings, but "they're easier on my instrument" isn't typically one of them. Fingerboard maintenance is one of those costs of doing business.

 

[JazznFunk]

Depends on the gut string and if it's wound or unwound, and the TYPE of winding too. Golden Spirals (or Aquila Gold Springs, their modern equivalent) have a flat nylon winding that hasn't caused any more wear to my fingerboard than any other flat metal wound string has done. Technique matters too, for the left and right hands. YMMV.

 

[flixbass]

There are many reasons to choose particular strings, but "they're easier on my instrument" isn't typically one of them. Fingerboard maintenance is one of those costs of doing business.

Absolutely correct. I did not aim on "easiest strings to the fingerboard" with my question. I play what i like and when the fingerboard is worn, i will take care of it. Thanks a lot for the shared thoughts & experiences!
I made my fingerboards myself from the plank and while i'd readily admit flaws to my instruments in general, i think my fingerboards are darn good. I can take care of that. Though i might be better off practicing than tinkering with wood

 

[crd]

The guys at Gage's shop told me years ago that guts were harder on fingerboards than steel. Bigger amplitude of vibration maybe?

This is true. It also is no big deal on a nice ebony fingerboard. Bad luthiers are the only thing that will wear out a fingerboard.

 

[Don Kasper]

Sorry...I have very little self-control.

 

[Don Hergert]

Sorry...I have very little self-control.

[ IMAGE: ] MAYBE THE DINGOS ATE YOUR FINGERBOARD"

And if not, certainly they ate your gut strings!!!

 

[klyph]

It’s probably due as much to the chemistry of gut, as it’s actual abrasive qualities. Keeping dead animal tissue supple usually involves ammonia, formaldehyde, or acidic compounds. I think that could hasten wear, even in wound gut strings.

 

[Jay Corwin]

The only time I've ever had a gut string show wear to my board is when I was using wound E's. Especially if they are round wound.

I've been using gut for the entire existence of my Upton which is roughly 12 years. I've never had to have any work done the the board. YMMV.

 

[shwashwa]

I've had plain gut g&D strings on my bass, on a bass that I was really particularly happy with the fingerboard and set up. I practice a lot and when I say a lot I mean a lot. Within six months I needed a fingerboard dressing. I took it to David Gage and he said he could see exactly where my notes were and directly from the man himself said that gut strings because of the fibrous nature act like sandpaper on the fingerboard. I'm talking about plain gut not wound. Unfortunately I am making the decision not to use them because of how hard they are on the instrument. I don't want to go through fingerboards especially on basses where the setup is perfect.

 

[groooooove]

Most of what gets said about gut strings on here is false for some reason.

it's usually pretty obvious who knows what they are talkin about. I'll also have to agree with @AGCurry that something can be repeated a few times on this forum and get perceived as common knowledge, despite being downright false in some cases.

I've had gamut medium+ tension guts on my bass for around a year. I have noticed no change in my fingerboard. I play a lot. Depending on the season, sometimes 5+ hours daily since I use my bass at my day job teaching.

There may be a particular string, fingerboard, or combination of both that somehow is problematic. But guts have been used on wooden fingerboards for centuries. it's fine.

P.S. lots of historical and modern replica instruments use maple fingerboards. Our cellist colleagues playing baroque style instruments (maple boards) seem to have no trouble with this?

non-issue, as far as I can tell.

 

[shwashwa]

Most of what gets said about gut strings on here is false for some reason.

it's usually pretty obvious who knows what they are talkin about. I'll also have to agree with @AGCurry that something can be repeated a few times on this forum and get perceived as common knowledge, despite being downright false in some cases.

I've had gamut medium+ tension guts on my bass for around a year. I have noticed no change in my fingerboard. I play a lot. Depending on the season, sometimes 5+ hours daily since I use my bass at my day job teaching.

There may be a particular string, fingerboard, or combination of both that somehow is problematic. But guts have been used on wooden fingerboards for centuries. it's fine.

P.S. lots of historical and modern replica instruments use maple fingerboards. Our cellist colleagues playing baroque style instruments (maple boards) seem to have no trouble with this?

non-issue, as far as I can tell.

you probably should know what you're talking about before you respond.

I've had plain gut g&D strings on my bass, on a bass that I was really particularly happy with the fingerboard and set up. I practice a lot and when I say a lot I mean a lot. Within six months I needed a fingerboard dressing. I took it to David Gage and he said he could see exactly where my notes were and directly from the man himself said that gut strings because of the fibrous nature act like sandpaper on the fingerboard. I'm talking about plain gut not wound. Unfortunately I am making the decision not to use them because of how hard they are on the instrument. I don't want to go through fingerboards especially on basses where the setup is perfect.

this is 100% true. ive been using various guts for 10+ years now. that said, my gamuts pistoy's never had this issue. my lenzers did and my gamut red diamond (origional formula) did as well.

 

[Don Hergert]

I have to wonder if there is a setup or playing difference involved with how much strings of any kind might degrade a fingerboard... For example, setup / playing style for arco vs setup / playing style for pizz vs setup / playing style for slap?

Any thoughts?

I am not currently and have never been a real plain gut user, but I am tempted.

 

[shwashwa]

well, id say david gage probably knows what he's talking about. that said, the guy who called me out seems to only have experience with one brand of strings (and only for one year), and gamuts are very high quality and have never sprouted hairs on me. the whole point of this whole thread is that the little hairs act like sandpaper, so if you're using a string that doesnt do that you'll never experience that (yet still somehow act like an expert on the matter). i'm not an authority on all of the brands that sprout hairs, but when you do get the hairs, on all of the brands that i've used, you get wear on the fingerboard. check with the Gage shop. i think this is one of the reasons for coated and wound gut on the high strings. obviously the metal winding on the lower strings is to add mass so the diameter can be brought down.