Double Bass Fingerboard planing

[210superair]

I did some searching on fb planing, and found a few threads, but all ending with 'take it to a luthier', or some similar comments. My Eastman has noticeable dents at the common spots on the e and a, and they're buzzing, so time for planing, and I'm definitely going to be doing it myself. There's not a ton of info out there on this, precious few YouTube vids, etc.

Anyone else done one themselves? Tips, other than take it to a luthier? Any input appreciated...

 

[notabene]

don't use a plane. use a scraper (flat piece of steel) . Go slow!

 

[eh_train]

...and I'm definitely going to be doing it myself... Any input appreciated...

Okay, my input is to ask why you're doing it yourself. If it's to save $150 or so, I'd strongly advise against dabbling in fingerboard dressing. You might end up turning the $150 job into a $300 + job when you finally take it to a luthier and have to explain how you tried to fix it. And, when that time comes, so you don't aggravate the person, maybe just say "my dog ate it".

If, on the other hand, you really want to learn about repairing instruments, there are lots of online resources. Here's one hint: don't just search Youtube for "upright bass fingerboard dressing" - the same physics apply to cellos, violins, etc...

Good luck!

 

[210superair]

Okay, my input is to ask why you're doing it yourself. If it's to save $150 or so, I'd strongly advise against dabbling in fingerboard dressing. You might end up turning the $150 job into a $300 + job when you finally take it to a luthier and have to explain how you tried to fix it. And, when that time comes, so you don't aggravate the person, maybe just say "my dog ate it".

If, on the other hand, you really want to learn about repairing instruments, there are lots of online resources. Here's one hint: don't just search Youtube for "upright bass fingerboard dressing" - the same physics apply to cellos, violins, etc...

Good luck!

I was expecting this post at a very early point in the thread. I want to say I in absolutely no way suggest that people try to do such things themselves if they're not comfortable doing it, and there's luthiers out there for a reason.

That said, I'm doing it myself because I have a lot of experience in very difficult wood working (and many other areas of hands on work, such as machining, etc), and all my previous instrument work has come out excellent, though I've of course struggled through hiccups and learning curves on the way. I do most everything myself in this life. My cars and boats rarely visit a mechanic, unless I don't feel like messing with it, nor do my instruments, appliances, etc. I absolutely expect to make some mistakes with this. If I do, it still won't be going to a luthier. I'll steam the FB off, get another, and start again, because I'm a hands on guy and enjoy doing such things myself. And like Joe Pesci said in Casino, "Because I'm stupid. And I don't give a ****. That's my business, that's what I do...", Lol.

On the resources, yes, I'm looking elsewhere as well. I do have a buddy down the road a piece who is a luthier and he's got a book he's going to loan me that he says will really help. He's not a bass specialist, but just did his own bass, and being familiar with my other work, he's 100% confident I can do the job well, as am I. I've been searching a lot online and will continue to do so, and that's really what this thread is, putting feelers out for info. And not just for me, there's a few guys on here that like to learn, and do their own work, an watch others do their own, even if they don't, and even if we make some mistakes in the process. That's how we learn, no? Hope that answers your questions.

SO. If anyone who has done the job wants to chime in with any pearls, much appreciated. If not, no worries, but it's happening either way! Lol...

I appreciate you wishing me good luck. I'd rather be lucky than good, as they say.... but both is nice.

 

[GretschWretch]

Can we get pics? How long and deep are the ruts? If they are not too long or too deep -- say just a couple of inches -- I might try building up the low spots with cyclo ..., cyclam ..., whatever the hell we're calling Super Glue these days, and then scrape any high places down to flush. Seems a lot less trouble and less risky than planing the entire fingerboard down the the level of the ruts.

 

[210superair]

Can we get pics? How long and deep are the ruts? If they are not too long or too deep -- say just a couple of inches -- I might try building up the low spots with cyclo ..., cyclam ..., whatever the hell we're calling Super Glue these days, and then scrape any high places down to flush. Seems a lot less trouble and less risky than planing the entire fingerboard down the the level of the ruts.

I don't think pics will do much to help, you can't tell by looking at it, you really have to play the bass to tell. I've been using wrapped E/A strings for quite a while, and they've just dug into the FB, especially on the octaves, because that's generally where I live when I'm playing the kind of stuff my last band was playing. But there's noticeable indentation on the E/A in that area, and the strings buzz when fingered there. If I move my finger out of the indentations, sharp or flat, everything is fine.

I don't know about the filling idea. Certainly less trouble. I'll say this though: If I went to check out a bass for sale, and the FB was done likely, I'd be telling the seller "It needs FB work...", so I don't see me doing that. In all things in my life, I don't consider myself the owner, but the caretaker of whatever it is, until the next caretaker, so I try to do things right for the next person. Same with my home, etc, I don't cut corners. As far as risk, I'm aware of and willing to accept the risk, though I honestly don't consider it much risk. It's a job I'm going to do, and I've done much more difficult tasks than this. If I screw it up, I'll fix it. Like I said, that's how we learn. I'm not scared or nervous about it in any way....

 

[Steven Ayres]

What are the species and grade of the fingerboard wood?

 

[210superair]

What are the species and grade of the fingerboard wood?

Very good question. It's an Eastman VB80, so I do believe it's ebony... If I'm incorrect and someone knows different please chime in, but it certainly doesn't look like ebonized hardwood to me...

 

[unbrokenchain]

If it's just a couple high spots, you might be able to get away with doing very minimal work. What I've done before is leave the strings on the bass, but detune two at a time (E and A for example), and shift them over to share the bridge and nut slots with the D and G. Then a little sandpaper, and like notabene says, go slow, and pop the strings back over, tune them up and see how it changes. My experience has generally been chasing the high spots toward the end of the fingerboard. It takes me many hours to accomplish this, and when I brought my bass to Condino for this reason it took him less than 30 minutes, just sayin

 

[Steven Ayres]

I've been using wrapped E/A strings for quite a while, and they've just dug into the FB, especially on the octaves

I can't claim expert status on this, but it seems to me that planing only the E/A side of the board to eliminate the low spots would necessarily distort the fingerboard and bridge arch, and to some extent reduce the break angle for those strings, all of which will have cumulative effect on your sound. This matters less if you're not bowing, but it's something to consider for the next owner too. To me doing this right means working the whole board, from nut to bridge.

Cutting down through significant ruts will take off a lot of wood. I expect you'll want more than a scraper to rough it in.

 

[eh_train]

210, I get your DIY ethos, really. I've always had some of that going on, particularly growing up with very modest means. But as I get older I realize there are a finite amount of things I want to spend my time on.

I don't know about the filling idea.

Here's the good news: Ebony fingerboards love being filled with superglue (and the vast majority are these days, even when they come from a factory looking shiny and new).

Here's how it works: 1) Put superglue in the ruts. 2) Sand lightly over the rut 3) Finished! (except you'll probably want to lightly sand and oil the whole board, to make things look even/blended.

The reason it works is the Cyroanylate (sp?) reacts with the ebony dust to make a slurry that is an excellent filler. It's very hard to detect, especially if you work it in with progressively finer sanding.

I strongly recommend trying the filling first. Otherwise, it's like having one shingle fall off your roof and re-doing the entire roof. Not a good use of anyone's time.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Here's the good news: Ebony fingerboards love being filled with superglue

Does this hold true also for rosewood? Or not so much?

 

[eh_train]

UBC,

I’m not sure as I very seldom work with rosewood. It might work but be less invisible. Do you have a scrap to try it on?

 

[unbrokenchain]

I don't, and my fingerboards are in great shape currently, just curious if there's something specific to ebony that makes it preferable for that treatment.

 

[eh_train]

It's just cosmetic: Ebony is mostly black, possibly with some irregular brown streaking, so you don't have to worry about matching grain or patterns in the wood. Rosewood can have some really nice grain or figure that would be messed up by filling.

 

[210superair]

I can't claim expert status on this, but it seems to me that planing only the E/A side of the board to eliminate the low spots would necessarily distort the fingerboard and bridge arch, and to some extent reduce the break angle for those strings, all of which will have cumulative effect on your sound. This matters less if you're not bowing, but it's something to consider for the next owner too. To me doing this right means working the whole board, from nut to bridge.

Cutting down through significant ruts will take off a lot of wood. I expect you'll want more than a scraper to rough it in.

I didn't mean to imply I was doing one side of the fb, I'm doing the whole thing.

And ALL about playing the bass? Eh. Not for me. It's about playing the bass, and keeping the bass setup and playing and sounding its best. Even a ply Eastman. I understand a lot of people play to play and have no interest in working on their instruments, but I dig it, and I think you can dig that Steven...you have the same bug, no?

 

[Steven Ayres]

Rosewood can have some really nice grain or figure that would be messed up by filling.

This is true. At the same time, the ruts are already largely hidden by the strings, rosewood is expensive, and it's all about playing the bass.

 

[210superair]

210, I get your DIY ethos, really. I've always had some of that going on, particularly growing up with very modest means. But as I get older I realize there are a finite amount of things I want to spend my time on.



Here's the good news: Ebony fingerboards love being filled with superglue (and the vast majority are these days, even when they come from a factory looking shiny and new).

Here's how it works: 1) Put superglue in the ruts. 2) Sand lightly over the rut 3) Finished! (except you'll probably want to lightly sand and oil the whole board, to make things look even/blended.

The reason it works is the Cyroanylate (sp?) reacts with the ebony dust to make a slurry that is an excellent filler. It's very hard to detect, especially if you work it in with progressively finer sanding.

I strongly recommend trying the filling first. Otherwise, it's like having one shingle fall off your roof and re-doing the entire roof. Not a good use of anyone's time.

It's more than just a spot or two. The fb definitely needs attention. I'd wager this has never been done on this instrument, and this thing has been played and gigged heavy for the last three or four years. So the shingle is kind of a misnomer of an analogy. If one shingle falls off, but the rest are hangin on by a thread, maybe it's time to do the whole roof after all instead of rigging one shingle back up?

What I was really looking for was tips on how to plane it, things to be aware of before getting into it, etc. If anyone has such input it's very welcome. Any discussion on the subject is nice to hear as well, and I hope others may find it helpful, since this seems to be a pretty quiet subject on here, other than 'take it in'.

I can understand some commercial users being quiet on the subject, no worries, but I just thought I'd ask if anyone here had done this job before I got into it...

 

[eh_train]

...My Eastman has noticeable dents at the common spots on the e and a...

My shingle analogy was based on the above. Maybe pics would be helpful?

I learned how to dress a fingerboard by watching others and reading up on it, then practicing and making lots of mistakes, then practicing again...

 

[DoubleMIDI]

Filling is a good idea because otherwise you have to scrape a lot of wood off to get to the ground of the dent.

I had a few bumps in my fingerboard, the luthier tried to do it while I was there, but he said that it would be best to do it a little bit several times and play in between. I looked how he did that (scraper from bride end to nut only, never the other way). Did it very slowly and after a few weeks and about ten times scaling during that period it went well. But I was very careful and that was good for the health of the fingerboard. Was also only under the highest string (high C on a 5-string).

But to remove a dent a scraper might not be the best tool. Did that with my rosewood fingerboard on a Stagg EUB myself, but I have watched the luthier and listened to what he said. Several absolutely straight scales of different lengths help to get find high spots and keep the length curvature equal (relief? forgot the English term for that; control it by looking at the air under the middle of the scale when in parallel to the fingerboard).
Dressing a fingerboard first time needs a lot of time because you have to proceed slowly so you won’t ruin the fingerboard.

My recommendation: take it to a luthier and watch what he does. He might explain to why he does this and that if he sees you are interested. Then, next time you can try this yourself.
Or try it on a fingerboard that needs to be replaced anyway. So there is no additional cost because a new fingerboard has to be paid for anyways.