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Double Bass Fingerboard planing

It's about playing the bass, and keeping the bass setup and playing and sounding its best.

Exactly what I meant to say.

I understand a lot of people play to play and have no interest in working on their instruments, but I dig it, and I think you can dig that Steven...you have the same bug, no?

I'm the sort who'll only take a job to someone else if I can't do it or I'm failing at it. I'm also pretty far distant from a serious bass luthiery.

I've seen your work here, and I'm confident that you can handle the job; just asking this question increases that confidence. I think this is a good opportunity to discuss tools and techniques, and I look forward to more of that.
 
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Exactly what I meant to say.



I'm the sort who'll only take a job to someone else if I can't do it or I'm failing at it. I'm also pretty far distant from a serious bass luthiery.

I've seen your work here, and I'm confident that you can handle the job; just asking this question increases that confidence. I think this is a good opportunity to discuss tools and techniques, and I look forward to more of that.

Speaking of tools I have this hugely long flat sander that I use for fairing boards in on boats. I was wondering about using that in varying grits. Take longer than a plane but easier to control, and time's the one thing I'm not worried about right now.... Thoughts fellas?' Id also be interested in thoughts on how to treat the wood after it's level...

For now I'm gonna remove the strings and pop the nut and get her set up on the bench...

Thanks for all the input guys.
 
I can't claim expert status on this, but it seems to me that planing only the E/A side of the board to eliminate the low spots would necessarily distort the fingerboard and bridge arch, and to some extent reduce the break angle for those strings, all of which will have cumulative effect on your sound. This matters less if you're not bowing, but it's something to consider for the next owner too. To me doing this right means working the whole board, from nut to bridge.

Cutting down through significant ruts will take off a lot of wood. I expect you'll want more than a scraper to rough it in.

Right and good points, but fwiw I have done just this (I've worn spots under the G and D strings on my basses, but haven't had the issue with E and A for whatever reason, I guess just where I spend the most time playing), and I haven't noticed the distortion in the radius. Granted, I've usually kept my string height pretty low and so a high spot really wasn't too high to be noticeable, so I end up removing very little wood. If the spots or grooves are deep enough to warrant a scraper or plane, then this probably isn't a good way to do it.
 
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I would not use a sander and a long one won’t give you the right shape.
Before you start anything, get several straight scales of different lengths (20 cm up to 1 meter) and look between the scale and the fingerboard at different places (but not at the grooves but beneath). This is how the fingerboard needs to be shaped. There should be always a bit of air in the middle of the scale. Using a long sander cannot give this to you but makes it absolutely straight or even the other way round. Wrong tool. Only use a very fine (short) sander at the end to polish the board, but not to shape it.
Learn how to make a scraper sharp.
 
I would not use a sander and a long one won’t give you the right shape.

I only use a small sanding block (about 5" length) at the very end of the job, to smooth any small inconsistencies - a long sanding block definitely can't give you the overall shape required, and in fact will wipe out the subtle work that's necessary.

Before you start anything, get several straight scales of different lengths (20 cm up to 1 meter) and look between the scale and the fingerboard at different places (but not at the grooves but beneath). This is how the fingerboard needs to be shaped. There should be always a bit of air in the middle of the scale.
Yep, mark any high spots with a grease pencil, then scrape or plane these marks off (scraper if they're not too severe, otherwise plane. Like the sanding block, the plane should be no more than 5" long for this subtle work).

Like I mentioned earlier "make mistakes, try again, make mistakes...."
 
Generally speaking.

First have a very sharp plane blade, from your post saying you've done some woodworking I assume you know how to sharpen tools... if not then that's your first step. Use a block plane such as a lie nelson 9 1/2, record, or stanley. Set the plane up so it takes off more than shavings but also isn't taking a bunch of material off.

I would strongly advise against using the sanding block you mentioned for a lot of reasons, you need a smaller plane or surface because if you use a larger plane or block you risk just flattening the board.

Something to consider before you take off any wood. Do you like the shape of the board? Do you feel it has the right amount of scoop and the right radius at the nut and bridge end? If so I would make a template for the radius of both ends. Then use a straight edge that is longer or at least the length go the board to see the scoop and make notes of the scoop at various points, different people have different ideas on scoop shape and depth but generally speaking the deepest the scoop will be is somewhere around the octave-ish.... if you are happy with all this then make notes of the scoop under each string and try to keep everything the same as if currently is, so all you re doing is taking off wood and ideally not changing the shape. The notes and templates will allow you to check your work along the way incase you start flattening the board. If you do not like the current shape that's a whole nother discussion on what to change and how to change it and there are a lot of varying opinions on the topic.

Second, I would just plane the whole length of the board in one motion from one end to the other, one pass at a time working from E to G or G to E, until you hit the whole board. Some boards like to go from nut to bridge some like to go the other way, depends on the grain you should be able to figure this out within the first couple passes. If after the first time over the whole board you can not tell where the plane is hitting mark diagonal lines on the board with pencil so you can see where the plane took off material.

Do this until the plane blade is making contact along the whole length of the board on every pass, again checking to make sure you are doing this in an even way across the radius of the board.

Depending on the thickness of the board, you may have a lot to work with or very little. So just go slow and check yourself a long the way. If you notice your are flattening the scoop just do a couple passes starting in the middle of the board and slowly make the length go the pass larger to not just dig a whole in a area. Plane until the ruts are gone. Use smaller straight edges to make sure there are not any peaks and valleys up and down the board.

After you are satisfied with the shape of the board I would use a small sanding block and sand from like 80, 100,150,220,320, 400, if you want 600. With wetting and letting the board dry to raise the grain twice with 150. Make sure you get all the tool marks out and that is a smooth radius, also be sure to slightly round off the edges of the board with 220 or higher grit. leave the board as is or finish it with.... wats danish oil, almond oil, again.... there are a lot of different thoughts on what to use for that.

Also since there are ruts chances are the nut will be too high when you are done, so you'll probably need to make the string slots in the nut deeper as well.

I am in no way saying this is the best way but it is a method, and since you seem pretty set on doing it yourself I feel this is a good place to start. The main thing is just make sure you keep the correct radius from E to G for the whole board and also be sure there is scoop in the board, but not too much.
 
Generally speaking.

... generally speaking the deepest the scoop will be is somewhere around the octave-ish...

Hi Mgaisbacher,

Everything you've described is helpful. Just checking, though, about the deepest point of the scoop. I've always found it needs to be about halfway in the length of the board (e.g., at the E on the G string, assuming a D neck).

Steven, you've said "this is a good opportunity to discuss tools and techniques, and I look forward to more of that." Agreed that some description is helpful, like what Mgaisbacher has offered. My difficulty with this is that there are many ways to do this, with trial and error involved, and it takes a lot of writing to describe the process. At some point the OP will start in on it, hopefully without using a 17" sanding block.
 
SO. If anyone who has done the job wants to chime in with any pearls, much appreciated. If not, no worries, but it's happening either way! Lol...

I appreciate you wishing me good luck. I'd rather be lucky than good, as they say.... but both is nice.[/QUOTE]

I've "done the job" on my basses, and my wife's. So far, I've only improved the fingerboards. That said, this may be a good time to utter something all my bass repair work (on my basses) has taught me. Everything you do affects everything in the bass's sound. Although you can do many things "by the book", the complexity of effects of altering things on the bass leads me to greatly respect the idea of acting on gut instinct (pun may be intended?). This "gut instinct" is dependent on a lot of experience. So, more power to you in learning how to do luthier work, but, for me, I have huge respect for skilled bass luthiers, since it takes many years of "adjustments" to develop the "instincts" necessary for "optimum" sound.
 
I can understand some commercial users being quiet on the subject, no worries, but I just thought I'd ask if anyone here had done this job before I got into it...

The silence is mainly because it is difficult to condense a four hour task that uses $1000+ worth of tools and 20 years experience down to a paragraph or two and feel like you covered the subject properly....
 
We seem to have departed from the idea of filling in the fingerboard grooves that have been worn by the strings. Is that still a feasible thing? If the overall shape was A-OK before the grooves developed, it seems the best thing would be to fill the groove (assuming there is a workable way to do that), and concentrate on getting the fill material even with its surroundings.

Although, as I just stated, I don't know whether there is a workable/reliable way to fill the grooves.
 
Hi Mgaisbacher,

Everything you've described is helpful. Just checking, though, about the deepest point of the scoop. I've always found it needs to be about halfway in the length of the board (e.g., at the E on the G string, assuming a D neck).
That's why I said octave-ish, I guess I should maybe further explain that I mean somewhere between the heel and the octave. Some people have the E closer to the heel and then the deepest point goes diagonal to closer to the octave on the G string , some probably do straight across, some leave the board flatter after the octave, some do other things. There are so many different things that you could do and I do not claim to understand all of the options or why you would choose those options.

As @james condino said it, is very hard to condense into a couple paragraphs. I just thought since no one has chimed in with even a basic overview I thought I would at least give the OP that. That is all I am claiming this is. People like James and others have a much better understanding of fingerboard geometry than I do. I have only set up a couple dozen basses in the past few years and do not claim to be an expert in any regard to fingerboards.
 
To be honest, while I have some specific personal ideas of how I like the fingerboard geometry to be when the bass is strung up at full tension and ready to play, getting there is more like this:

-three or four smaller sessions of dressing the board, string it up, play it for a day
- repeat
- repeat
- repeat a final micro session with the bass owner present. Even if it really does not need anything, they get all warm fuzzy feelings like they are getting individual personalized service going the extra mile.

The biggest challenge is that a fingerboard strung up and ready to play with 300 lbs of tension is often a completely different beast than the same fingerboard with no tension on it. Experience has taught me to be able to make counterintuitive adjustments like knowing when a knot will bow up and when it will compress....As always, my goal is a functional board on the gig, not a mathematical answer on the workbench, with intent.

Starting points: 1.5 mm relief for the E string, less on the G, half the string thickness or less for the nut gap, always have an honest explanation for what and why I did something, admit when I'm in over my head.

This is your project; jump in and own it.
 
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Generally speaking.

First have a very sharp plane blade, from your post saying you've done some woodworking I assume you know how to sharpen tools... if not then that's your first step. Use a block plane such as a lie nelson 9 1/2, record, or stanley. Set the plane up so it takes off more than shavings but also isn't taking a bunch of material off.

I would strongly advise against using the sanding block you mentioned for a lot of reasons, you need a smaller plane or surface because if you use a larger plane or block you risk just flattening the board.

Something to consider before you take off any wood. Do you like the shape of the board? Do you feel it has the right amount of scoop and the right radius at the nut and bridge end? If so I would make a template for the radius of both ends. Then use a straight edge that is longer or at least the length go the board to see the scoop and make notes of the scoop at various points, different people have different ideas on scoop shape and depth but generally speaking the deepest the scoop will be is somewhere around the octave-ish.... if you are happy with all this then make notes of the scoop under each string and try to keep everything the same as if currently is, so all you re doing is taking off wood and ideally not changing the shape. The notes and templates will allow you to check your work along the way incase you start flattening the board. If you do not like the current shape that's a whole nother discussion on what to change and how to change it and there are a lot of varying opinions on the topic.

Second, I would just plane the whole length of the board in one motion from one end to the other, one pass at a time working from E to G or G to E, until you hit the whole board. Some boards like to go from nut to bridge some like to go the other way, depends on the grain you should be able to figure this out within the first couple passes. If after the first time over the whole board you can not tell where the plane is hitting mark diagonal lines on the board with pencil so you can see where the plane took off material.

Do this until the plane blade is making contact along the whole length of the board on every pass, again checking to make sure you are doing this in an even way across the radius of the board.

Depending on the thickness of the board, you may have a lot to work with or very little. So just go slow and check yourself a long the way. If you notice your are flattening the scoop just do a couple passes starting in the middle of the board and slowly make the length go the pass larger to not just dig a whole in a area. Plane until the ruts are gone. Use smaller straight edges to make sure there are not any peaks and valleys up and down the board.

After you are satisfied with the shape of the board I would use a small sanding block and sand from like 80, 100,150,220,320, 400, if you want 600. With wetting and letting the board dry to raise the grain twice with 150. Make sure you get all the tool marks out and that is a smooth radius, also be sure to slightly round off the edges of the board with 220 or higher grit. leave the board as is or finish it with.... wats danish oil, almond oil, again.... there are a lot of different thoughts on what to use for that.

Also since there are ruts chances are the nut will be too high when you are done, so you'll probably need to make the string slots in the nut deeper as well.

I am in no way saying this is the best way but it is a method, and since you seem pretty set on doing it yourself I feel this is a good place to start. The main thing is just make sure you keep the correct radius from E to G for the whole board and also be sure there is scoop in the board, but not too much.

Best FB general information post of TB right here. Thank you for that.
 
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I have never done it. And I have taken my bass to the luthier, to get it done. But I have thought, that if I was going to have a go at it, could one use a flexible'ish sanding block? I understand a longer, stiff sanding block is not the way to work on something that is supposed to curve. My other (intuitive) concept would be sanding by hand, longitudinally, covering as much of the radius of the board at a time. A total hacks viewpoint.
Oh, and why does a block plane work on a curved surface? Just being curious.
 
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I Oh, and why does a block plane work on a curved surface? Just being curious.

Planing a concave surface with a block plane will work as long as the concavity is less than the curve that would be defined by the front edge, the blade edge, and the rear edge of the plane. You could plane a concave surface with a 18" jointer plane, but the concavity would be far less than with a 5" block plane.
 
Exactly what I meant to say.



I'm the sort who'll only take a job to someone else if I can't do it or I'm failing at it. I'm also pretty far distant from a serious bass luthiery.

I've seen your work here, and I'm confident that you can handle the job; just asking this question increases that confidence. I think this is a good opportunity to discuss tools and techniques, and I look forward to more of that.

Been doing a lot of research on the job. Lots and lots of reading.

I'm thinking for a plane either a Lie Nielson 102 or 60 1/2 with the adjustable mouth. Any favorite planes out there?