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Double Bass Fingerboard Radius Graduation

Aug 1, 2005
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Cologne, Germany
www.basscapos.com
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Private Inventor - Bass Capos
An issue with fingerboard dressing is how much the radius must decrease from the bridge end to the nut. I think most luthiers go by instinct. At least the ones I've talked to don't seem to consult any tables or anything. I'm attempting to solve this puzzle with my CAD software. I took dimensions from a standard Kay blank (just guessing a 3" radius) and placed the corners on a cone. I make no claims, but here is what I've come up with so far. I haven't included any scoop or string height parameters. In this case the radius at the nut is 43% of what it is at the bridge end. Does it seem right?
radii1_zps2afa3168.jpg
 
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I can only speak for myself, but I have found through experience a curvature for the nut that feels nice in the left hand and a curvature for the bridge end that allows for adequate bow clearance. The nut is tighter than the bridge end, but I couldn't say if they form a perfect cone with the bridge. What matters to me is correct scoop under each string, and correct string heights for all four strings. Most violin makers shape their fingerboards to a constant radius the whole length. Even then, it's still possible to put the correct amount of scoop under each string. I think you could make just about any shape work, though it may be not be 100% ideal. By the way, I see many shops using fingerboard curvatures that aren't actually a true radius.
 
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I can only speak for myself, but I have found through experience a curvature for the nut that feels nice in the left hand and a curvature for the bridge end that allows for adequate bow clearance. The nut is tighter than the bridge end, but I couldn't say if they form a perfect cone with the bridge. What matters to me is correct scoop under each string, and correct string heights for all four strings. Most violin makers shape their fingerboards to a constant radius the whole length. Even then, it's still possible to put the correct amount of scoop under each string. I think you could make just about any shape work, though it may be not be 100% ideal. By the way, I see many shops using fingerboard curvatures that aren't actually a true radius.

I agree with all of what you say, but I bet the process can still be improved, or at least streamlined.

Arnold explained this more succinctly than I can, but the gist is that the radius must change to follow the string spacing, forming a cone. If you lay a straight edge along a cylinder and angle it slightly, then you will see that you have a slight positive scoop. Since the string spacing is narrower at the nut than at the bridge, then the radius must be smaller to make a straight line along the string path. (I'm trying to illustrate this with my CAD software, but not yet getting what I want.) My point is that if you begin with the right cone, then the fingerboard starts out flat under each string. Any scoop you introduce can be done evenly across the board, with less need to fine tune each string. Probably less work and a better result in the end.
 
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Robobass,

what kind of files can your cad import? I can sen you my version, it basically transitions through several different radii don't forget the parabolic curve at the edge which has a significant impact on the scoop and radii through the length of the fingerboard.

RC,
The more I mess around with this, the more I see how complex the issue actually is. I'm using BobCad 26, which has rather limited screen rendering (the screenshots I posted aren't very accurate!). It imports .bbcd .bbas .bart .cad.igs / .iges .dxf .dwg .sat .3dm .x_t .x_b .sldprt .stp / .step .stl. Many are not useful in 3D, and I've only heard of a few of them. If you or anyone else wants to send me some files, then please do so. I don't install fingerboards myself, but I find the science behind it an interesting hobby!
 
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(edited - removed extraneous information, and added more detail)

In a cone section, the radius is proportional to the distance from the apex (the pointed end).
The radius is also proportional to the distance between two lines on the surface that extend
from the apex. These lines represent the fingerboard path beneath the strings. If you extend
these lines beyond the nut, they will converge at the apex of the cone.

At the nut, the strings are very close to the fingerboard, and the distance between the lines
is very close to the distance between the E and G (center to center). At the bridge end of the
fingerboard, the E and G need to be pressed down to the board to find this distance because
we need this measurement at the radius of the fingerboard, not at the radius of the strings.
At the nut, the bottom of the strings are already at the fingerboard radius.

These two measurements are basically the E to G string spacing, with the strings lying flat
on the fingerboard. One measurement at the nut, and one at the bridge end of the board.
The ratio of these two measurements is also the ratio of the radius at the two ends of the
fingerboard for a matching cone.

Note - these are not actual radius of that particular board; they are the radius for a cone that
would fit perfectly beneath the strings.

On my bass, E to G at nut is about 1.25". E to G at bridge end of fingerboard is about 2.75".
So the ratio is 2.2, which is a nut radius that's 45 percent of the fingerboard end radius.
Based on the string spacing on my bass, a matching cone would have a radius ratio of 2.2.
The nut end would be about 45 percent of the bridge end. The board is 34". So I'm getting
similar numbers to yours for a matching cone.

My fingerboard also measures close to 3" radius at the bridge end, but it's close to 2" radius
at the nut. So it has a conical surface, but does not match the string paths. The actual radius
at nut is 67 percent instead of 45.

The positive scoop that you mentioned, caused by angled strings on a cylindrical surface, is
typically less than 0.001" for an electric guitar. Very surprising! I expected it to be more and
modeled it with a PC program a couple years ago. Someone in another forum also became
interested and modeled it with a CAD program. He got the same results. I dusted off my program
and ran it again with upright bass parameters. These are the results:

scale 42"
string spacing at nut 1.25"
string spacing at bridge 3.12"
radius 3.0"

height at nut 0.0000
height at midpoint 0.0265
height at fretboard end 0.0000

The midpoint value shows the height of the positive scoop, or "hump" along the fingerboard
path beneath the E or G string. A straight edge placed parallel to the string would rock on a
hump that was 0.0265" high. The height at the ends are the reference points.

And that is for a cylindrical (constant radius) board. A conical board would have less to none,
depending on the match to string spacing.

Also a cone is not the only shape that has straight fingerboard paths beneath each string.
You can modify a cylindrical surface by simply "scooping" the outer strings slightly more than
the inner strings. You get something that sort of resembles an hourglass shape.


Whether or not a matching cone is best for a neck is a whole 'nother matter, as JoeyNaeger
suggested.

-
 
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