Fingering Hand Technique

[The Legend]

Not the first post on this topic, but here goes.

My bass instructor (an accomplished guitarist) insists that I must alternate fingers and never use the index finger consecutively. I can use my index, middle and ring finger but never use them twice in a row.

I will have to undo 10 years of training which I am not keen on doing, especially at my age. Will it be worth retraining myself? What say you?

 

[Gorn]

Are you talking about the fingers plucking the strings? It’s good to be good at alternating fingers, but to say you can never use one finger consecutively is silly.

 

[The Legend]

Are you talking about the fingers plucking the strings? It’s good to be good at alternating fingers, but to say you can never use one finger consecutively is silly.

Yes plucking hand

 

[Gorn]

I’m assuming he’s exaggerating. It’s good to be able to alternate fingers but if I’m playing Stand By Me I’m probably just gonna use my index finger.

 

[The Legend]

I’m assuming he’s exaggerating. It’s good to be able to alternate fingers but if I’m playing Stand By Me I’m probably just gonna use my index finger.

I appreciate the reply, but he did get mad at me saying he needed me to fix it before the next lesson. I like high standards, but this is supposed to be fun. Best wishes.

 

[Papageno]

Why don't you take lessons with an acomplished bassist? Did your guitar player teacher hear about raking? Does he dislike James Jamerson's playing?

 

[Les Fret]

Why don't you take lessons with an acomplished bassist? Did your guitar player teacher hear about raking? Does he dislike James Jamerson's playing?

You don’t have to dislike Jamerson to advocate the two finger technique.
In a lesson situation it is not good to advocate the one finger technique. With most students they use that because of a lack of right hand technique. Or laziness or lack of practice and focus on the right hand.

So it is fair for a teacher to address this. You are taking lessons to progress and learn something new isn’t it?

 

[rowsi]

I appreciate the reply, but he did get mad at me saying he needed me to fix it before the next lesson. I like high standards, but this is supposed to be fun. Best wishes.

Now, I second that getting a student to play with two fingers early on is a good idea. Even enforcing it with some finality might be fine to drive the point home. But getting "mad" at a student for not learning as fast as the teacher would like the student to is pedagogically questionable.

You should consider finding a different teacher.

 

[SteveCS]

...
but he did get mad at me saying he needed me to fix it before the next lesson.
...

...
In a lesson situation it is not good to advocate the one finger technique.
...

...
Now, I second that getting a student to play with two fingers early on is a good idea. Even enforcing it with some finality might be fine to drive the point home.
...

...
insists that I must alternate fingers and never use the index finger consecutively. I can use my index, middle and ring finger but never use them twice in a row.
...

...
I will have to undo 10 years of training
...

I don't think you need to unlearn 10 years of training, but it might help to re-frame the question. IMHO, there is a more subtle point being missed here, which is that BOTH are legitimate and have a place 'in the book'.

IF the lesson/exercise is intended to develop 2-finger alternating technique then you need to be focussing on playing with two fingers alternating - playing with just one finger or continual raking would be doing it wrong. IF, on the other hand, the lesson is 1-finger method then that is what you should be doing - in this instance playing with 2 would be wrong. At the end of it all you will have sufficient understanding of the differences to be able to make an informed choice based on what best suits the music.

Plenty of replies will say "just do what works". My experience is that "just doing what works" generally means that no deliberate decision has been made either way because the two approaches were never practiced individually and deliberately.

YMMV

 

[Samatza]

Ok, for practice alternate fingers and get comfortable in doing that, in practice.

In performance you’ll find that strictly alternating can hinder you ability to execute some phrases cleanly.

Once you have the alternating technique down your brain will naturally dictate when you don’t use it in the interest of economy and cleaner playing.

Same as one finger per fret, we practice it but in performance sometimes ring and pinky work together in the first position unless the phrase dictates one finger per fret.

It comes quite naturally in fact and you don’t need to think about it too much as long as the result is smooth and not awkward.

 

[WrapRough]

For the most part, alternating is the most efficient, but there are times when one finger works just fine. Know both, and know when to use one over the to other. Just like most of the time we start on the index, there are times when starting on the middle is better for the line.

I would personally sack any teacher who got "mad" at me and demanded something from me by the next lesson.

 

[Papageno]

You don’t have to dislike Jamerson to advocate the two finger technique.
In a lesson situation it is not good to advocate the one finger technique. With most students they use that because of a lack of right hand technique. Or laziness or lack of practice and focus on the right hand.

So it is fair for a teacher to address this. You are taking lessons to progress and learn something new isn’t it?

I did not object to advocating the alternating 2-finger technique. It is important and needs to be mastered, as well raking, and walking with one finger. But there is a difference between advocating the alternating 2-finger technique, and insisting on the necessity of "never playing the same finger twice in a row" and "getting mad at the student" on this issue, which the point the OP's question.

I have been playing classical guitar in my teens, and the taboo about repeating fingers is something that is typical among guitar players (at least classical players). Indeed, repeating fingers frequently sounds quite bad for the kind of lines that are played on guitar, unless playing rest strokes and/or raking. That is why I suggest to take lessons from a bass player instead of a guitar player.

For me, the correct right hand technique is the one that can be left to autopilot and that sounds good. That usually requires to be fluent both in strict alternation, in raking, and in effective finger repetition.

 

[brianrost]

To put it as simply as possible, strict alternation is worth learning because it is the most efficient technique but there are times where other plucking techniques work better because of the way they sound.

If I use the side of a single finger (not the fingertip) like I do on my DB I can get a fatter tone with a less sharp attack...like a DB. Sometimes I press the tip of my thumb and index finger together and use the index finger nail like a pick. Then there's palm muting and plucking with the thumb. Even with strict alternation there is the choice when moving from a higher string to a lower string whether to alternate for the new note or simply rake with the last used finger which is more economical.

I would agree with your teacher and get strict alternation down pat and then down the road you can apply other plucking techniques if appropriate.

 

[SteveCS]

Ok, for practice alternate fingers and get comfortable in doing that, in practice.

In performance you’ll find that strictly alternating can hinder you ability to execute some phrases cleanly.

Once you have the alternating technique down your brain will naturally dictate when you don’t use it in the interest of economy and cleaner playing.

Same as one finger per fret, we practice it but in performance sometimes ring and pinky work together in the first position unless the phrase dictates one finger per fret.

It comes quite naturally in fact and you don’t need to think about it too much as long as the result is smooth and not awkward.

The sole purpose of practice is preparation for performance. If you don't plan to perform how you practice then what is the point of practice?

...
For me, the correct right hand technique is the one that can be left to autopilot and that sounds good. That usually requires to be fluent both in strict alternation, in raking, and in effective finger repetition.
...

Yes. Well Autopilot, like most airborne software, is deterministic and leaves nothing to chance. The problem with most bass players is that they mistake Autopilot for just allowing stuff to happen randomly without thinking and without a reliable fallback, default, exit or reset position. If an actual autopilot worked that way it would never be allowed near an actual airframe.

 

[Papageno]

If music would consist only of an uninterrupted string of notes equal duration (4th, 8th, 16th notes) played all on the same string, then 2-finger strict alternation would probably be the best and only technique to be used. But, fortunately, music is not like that: we deal with varied rhythms, rests, string crossings, syncopations, ghost notes, accents, etc. For these real life situations, other options (raking, finger repetition, 3-finger technique, thumb, etc.) are useful, and sometimes necessary.

 

[P-Belly Evans]

Not the first post on this topic, but here goes.

My bass instructor (an accomplished guitarist) insists that I must alternate fingers and never use the index finger consecutively. I can use my index, middle and ring finger but never use them twice in a row.

I will have to undo 10 years of training which I am not keen on doing, especially at my age. Will it be worth retraining myself? What say you?

What is this finger stuff of which you speak???

 

[Papageno]

Yes. Well Autopilot, like most airborne software, is deterministic and leaves nothing to chance. The problem with most bass players is that they mistake Autopilot for just allowing stuff to happen randomly without thinking and without a reliable fallback, default, exit or reset position. If an actual autopilot worked that way it would never be allowed near an actual airframe.

You quoted my post by leaving out the part I had written in bold: "the correct right hand technique is the one that can be left to autopilot and that sounds good." The stressed "and that sounds good" precisely excludes haphazard autopilot. By "autopilot", I mean precisely something that is optimized to the point that it takes care of itself well.

 

[SteveCS]

You quoted my post by leaving out the part I had written in bold: "the correct right hand technique is the one that can be left to autopilot and that sounds good." The stressed "and that sounds good" precisely excludes haphazard autopilot. By "autopilot", I mean precisely something that is optimized to the point that it takes care of itself well.

Don't disagree, but I wanted to emphasise the more common interpretation of autopilot. We are most certainly on the same page here. I'll edit my post accordingly.

 

[Discount Bassy]

Is your teacher also an accomplished bassist? Can your teacher explain the reasoning behind, demonstrate and cleanly execute what you are being asked to do? I do not grudge exercises in a practice setting for what they are: exercises contributing to your "fitness". Challenges are what give you the opportunity to grow as a player. The goal of any teacher should be to have their student ultimately exceed them. If you guitarist teacher is not proficient as a bassist, you may be there sooner than you know.

 

[lfmn16]

Why are you studying bass with a guitarist? He’s wrong about this and probably a lot of other things.