Double Bass Fingering my new blonde double bass

[downrightjoe]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to URB and this forum, I have not had time to update my profile so I'll give you guys a quick rundown about me: I play guitar, harmonica and drums. I understand basic theory regarding chords, chord progressions, scales, modes and how they fit with chords and melodies... I can also read music, just not really fast sight reading. I'm all self taught, no teachers just a couple of theory books from mel bay. I'm proud that I put it all together in my head so now I really grasp it.
Right now I'm in a blues band and also another rockabilly band, I use both the guitar and harmonica for these bands. we rock.

I am about to buy a new Shen SB-90 and learn URB for music in the styles of ROckabilly, blues, swing and some Jazz, later on as my understanding grows. eventually I want to be classically trained and find work in symphonies and what not.

So here is where I need some help... I pretty much know my scales on guitar with all the intervals and was wondering if they just transpose over to the URB? I am pretty sure the bass strings on the guitar are the same notes on the bass?

Another problem:
I have no Idea how you guys manage to know where the notes are on your fingerboards when you guys have no frets?! I mean surely there must be some exact point to place your fingers for the notes you are looking for right? or does it change?

Please point me to some books or dvd's that will show me where to put my fingers and what fingers to use. Or is there a simple formula you guys can share with me to find the notes and scales without frets using the proper fingers and ergonomics? remember I know the intervals already and the tone of the notes in the scales by ear, I just don't have a mental grasp as to how to or where to put my left hand fingers!

I can't wait to start learning but I want to do it right from the start and eliminate bad habbits. Unfortunately there are no URB teachers in my local area, and right now without a car I cannot go very far with a BASS. Any help would be appreciated.

PS> I HAVE read the faq's and sticky threads on the subjects closest to what I thought I need and unfortunately I don't have the answers I need Thanks.

 

[Bass]

Hi Joe, welcome to TalkBass!

Man alive, the title of this thread is hilarious.

 

[Square Bear]

Unfortunately there are no URB teachers in my local area...

this may not be true, but it would help to know where your local area is! you may be able to find a teacher willing to drive to you (i've done it for students). there is really no substitute for taking lessons. even a few just to get started would be way more worthwhile than a video or website.

 

[Jason Sypher]

Well you certainly know how to enter into a party! Sounds like you gotta a long way to go yet. You can read till you're blue in the face but the quickest way to get over that initial hump of very important information is face to face with a teacher. If you're in any way serious about bowing you should get a teacher that is classically trained. It's great that you've taken the initiative to learn what you have so far. But the big challenge is going to be admitting what you don't know and coming to terms with the very real and immediate truth that you need to do whatever you can to get a really good teacher. Your goals are high and you're gonna need help and a lot of work to reach them. I am only encouraging you so don't get the wrong idea. There's so much great music to be played in the genre's that you listed and to succeed you need to take action NOW. Tell us where you are and we'll help you find a teacher! Cool man, you're on you way.

ps. while your'e fingering your blonde keep in mind that the Simandl method (what most players use) is to keep the second finger and third finger together all the way up until you get close to thumb position...

 

[wdave]

downrightjoe- you're my kinda guy. I applaud your enthusiasm:

eventually I want to be classically trained and find work in symphonies and what not

. Go man, go!
Question for Jason- OK, When you get all the way up to thumb position, what do you do with your 2nd and 3rd fingers?
Dave Little

 

[downrightjoe]

Thanks guys! This is great that I am able to get real people to respond to my post and help me and every other new-b out there reading this. I appreciate your advise you guys, its great that real world knowledge is being shared by guys who "been there, done that" and are kinda paving the way for new guys with your tips!

Great news! I found a private school kinda close to me and I just have to figure out how to get the bass on a public buss to get to school...

The deal is this: The teacher is primarily a classical guy who teaches with the BOW (arco style?) and I do want to learn classical style and discipline BUT... For immediate gratification and possibly getting paid (gigging blues, rockabilly) I need to know how to play with my fingers (pizacoto?) for some slap and walking the baseline up and down.

I have an apt. with him in less than a week and I'll be able to chat about what I want and what he can teach, so I am trying to figure out how to get the most of what I need from this teacher sooner than later. (don't get me wrong, realistically, I know it will take me AT LEAST months before I have a good enough tone and technique to gig, but I am a VERY fast learner).

How will I know if this guy is trying to slowly "milk me for my money" ? Do teachers usually follow a lesson plan that starts like 'part one, lesson one' and you have to follow that progression of lessons over the course of several months and not skip to the goods? or should a teacher address only and exactly what I think I want and need for my immediate gratification?

 

[wdnewman]

Let us start with some truths:

1. There is no "immediate gratification" in learning to play upright bass. It is considered by some to be the hardest of the string instruments to learn correctly, possibly due to the physicality of the bass. Conversely it is probably the most incorrectly played of all instruments, because any three year old can pull a string and make a sound. There are many out there doing no more than that and calling themselves "bass players". I see it a lot in rockabilly groups, with their left hand just grabbing the strings in the approximate location of a note. They play a heck of a lot of open strings. They are always amplified.

2. Any decent teacher starts with the basics, just as any builder starts with a foundation. Without the correct foundation, nothing else will be right. No good teacher can just skip to what you want to do, because you would not be doing it correctly.

3. The bow is very important in teaching you how to play in tune. Playing in tune is necessary to play correct walking bass lines (or anything else). It all ties together; you can't pick and choose. This is how we know where to put our fingers without frets.

4. If all you know of music is being self-taught from Mel Bay guitar books you should put all of that behind you and start from scratch with your teacher. Nothing you learned in guitar from Mel Bay will transfer over to the URB. Also ignore lessons that some dude has put on youtube.
There may be some good info there, but there is a lot of junk too. At your stage, without a teacher, you won't be able to tell the difference.

You are to be commended for wanting to do it right. Unfortunately you
need to remove the term "immediate gratification" from your wish list. If you want to do it right you will be learning for a long time. Not just months, but for many, many years.

 

[Bass]

Hey Newman:

1. So you don't consider rockabilly bass players bass players? What would you call them if not bass player? The person not on drums or guitar?

You see it alot hey? Tell me, what is the last rockabilly show you attended?

Link Removed, are my fingers in the correct location?

1. ...any three year old can pull a string and make a sound. There are many out there doing no more than that and calling themselves "bass players". I see it a lot in rockabilly groups, with their left hand just grabbing the strings in the approximate location of a note...

2. My first gig was 4 months after getting an upright.

2. Any decent teacher starts with the basics, just as any builder starts with a foundation. Without the correct foundation, nothing else will be right. No good teacher can just skip to what you want to do, because you would not be doing it correctly.

3. I have seen a bow but never touched one. I have been playing for almost 4 years. Perhaps I've been playing out of tune all this time?

3. The bow is very important in teaching you how to play in tune. Playing in tune is necessary to play correct walking bass lines (or anything else). It all ties together; you can't pick and choose. This is how we know where to put our fingers without frets.

 

[Elrend]

Hi Joe, welcome to TalkBass!

Man alive, the title of this thread is hilarious.

No, it honestly isn't.

 

[derob]

3. I have seen a bow but never touched one. I have been playing for almost 4 years. Perhaps I've been playing out of tune all this time?

Probably

 

[wdnewman]

I figured that in lieu of refuting Bass, it would be a lot easier if everyone would just look at the video he has posted which he apparently thinks backs his contention that all rockabilly players are accomplished bassist. Pay special attention to his right hand work, and watch carefully for dramatic gestures, which I have not seen done before.

All I can say is "wow".

 

[Bass]

...All I can say is "wow".

Evidently, since you didn't answer any of my questions.

...he apparently thinks backs his contention that all rockabilly players are accomplished bassist

I didn't say that. Are you a liar, Newman?

But you insulted people who play rockabilly bass.

...Pay special attention to his right hand work...

But you were making fun of the left hand. Change the topic, hey?

...and watch carefully for dramatic gestures, which I have not seen done before...

Guess you've never seen this video. Where've you been, Newman?

 

[Bass]

No, it honestly isn't.

Yes it is.

 

[Gornick]

Who opened the playpen?

Hey, Downright, stick with the classical guy, give the bow a whirl, get your left hand and your intonation together right from the start and it will seriously open up the possibilities. The right hand pizz technique will come along, it's an easier thing to adjust on the fly then the left hand. Playing notes true and in-tune with good left hand technique is a must for getting the most out of this thing, and the bow is the best way to hear the how true the note is. You are on the right track! good luck!

 

[wdnewman]

Ah, the maturity.

Good grief.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

3. I have seen a bow but never touched one. I have been playing for almost 4 years. Perhaps I've been playing out of tune all this time?

Seriously this is a big possibility - I was nervous about switching from being a bass guitar player of 20 years and taking up DB, so I went to an NS EUB with dot markers.

I did do a gig after a few weeks - but gradually the more I played it - the more I realised how bad my intonation was and when tunes were introduced with lines in unison with piano, I realised how far out!!

I eventually switched to DB 3 or 4 years ago and am aware of intonation issues 100% of the time, myself - although nobody has ever said to me that I am out of tune and I always get complements about my playing.

I think the more you play DB and listen - the more you are aware of intonation and as you work on it, you get to realise that hardly anybody is 100% accurate all the time and although it's a big part of the "sound" of the bass - it's something we can all work on every day and almost certainly need to!!??

 

[Jason Sypher]

I think what we have here is classic "darkside" stuff. Experienced bassist who knows a lot about playing the instrument upsets a newbie by making an offhand comment about what some consider a "bassist". My definition/your definition, it doesn't really matter now does it? Rockabilly guys should know that most classically trained bassists are not going to take them too seriously and, here's the rub, VISE VERSA! So who really cares? Bass, you took the bait, got all upset and started posting videos which, unfortunately, to a trained bassist, revealed limitations in your approach (and perhaps in your perspective). Still, I thought the music was cool. The OP's request was a common one round these parts, in brief, "how can I learn the double bass quickly?". Ask a bunch of people who have been studying hard for over 20 years a question like that and you're bound to get answers like the ones that were given. It's just the nature of the beast. Truth is, for most, playing the bass "just ok" is attainable but playing the bass at a high level takes decades of hard study. The OP casually mentioned wanting to play classical at some point which is akin to casually mentioning that you'd like to eventually try your hand at open heart surgery. I think he would do very well to go to that classical teacher and humble himself and learn to play the instrument. He wants to learn to play in tune and that's how it's done. He will be able to pick up pizz info just by meeting other players. The opening thread title was crass and immature, and not particularly considerate of the fact that there are many women here on the boards but, also nothing to get too excited over.

 

[Bass]

...Bass, you took the bait, got all upset and started posting videos which, unfortunately, to a trained bassist, revealed limitations in your approach (and perhaps in your perspective). Still, I thought the music was cool......

Thank-you Jason. Please explain the limitations further - this will be of benefit to both me and the OP.

The OP wants to play bass quickly - that is what I did. Newman seems to discourage the OP from doing just exactly that.

Got all upset? Challenging Newman forcefully is probably more accurate, and Newman has not yet provided a credible defence. Instead he has responded with sarcasm (the lowest form of humour) and misrepresentation.

Newman implies that rockabilly bass players with poor left hand technique are not bass players (see below). Does ANYONE here agree with that? Disrespect the poor technique - OK. But not a bass player? C'mon.

Downright Joe: please provide us with an update following your lesson.

any three year old can pull a string and make a sound. There are many out there doing no more than that and calling themselves "bass players". I see it a lot in rockabilly groups, with their left hand just grabbing the strings in the approximate location of a note.

 

[Square Bear]

who cares? chill out guys! thanks for talking some sense here, jason.

OP - i bet your classical teacher knows some jazz technique (at least enough to get you started), have you had a chance to talk to him about it yet? a lot of teachers (myself included) teach both styles but prefer to start most new students out with classical technique because it informs your approach to other styles more so than the other way around. if i were your teacher and you mentioned to me that you someday may want to play classical bass sometime down the road, i would definitely start you out with simandl book one and focus on classical to begin with.

also, ignore most of that nonsense up there. if you are a quick learner and have some musical intuition, you can learn a lot about bass playing very quickly with some dedication and a serious work ethic. i did (with a classical teacher, i might add). you could be gigging in no time if you want to. the good news is that 7 years later, i'm still learning something new about the bass every day. when someone tells you it takes years, they're wrong - it takes a lifetime if that is what you want to give to it. but still, with the right attitude you can do a lot of satisfying playing along the way, starting with day one. good luck!

 

[Gornick]

Excellent points Square and Jason.

Nobody here is saying that you have to put in 3 years of work mastering Simandl's two method books and all his etudes before getting out there to start jamming and gigging... It's never too early to play... But you are going to get the most out this instrument starting with at least a little bow work to get the technique and ear together.

Nobody serious on this board has ever advised someone to NOT pick up the bow, especially at the beginning. There are tons of threads and conversations here where this is gone over to death.

I picked up the bass wanting to focus on jazz but to try out a little classical as well. My teacher, who swung both ways , introduced me to a whole new world of music that I am grateful to have been a part of. It has made the rest of my musical endeavors that much more rewarding, and when I play a twelve bar shuffle or a three chord bluegrass tune or some surf rockabilly, or Giant Steps, I am grateful I got that Simandl work in there.