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Double Bass Fingering my new blonde double bass

#21
Ok, Bass, I looked at the video again. First of all, I'm not bashing you here. We're bass players. We play the bass and we SHOULD stick together as a community. It takes a certain type of person to want to play the bass and that, we all share. The limitations that came to mind when I watched the video were mostly in the right hand although you could focus a bit more on trying to keep those left hand fingers closer to the board for better accuracy.

About the right hand. Based on what I hear, your bass sounds a little like a big electric bass, not an air-pushing, woody acoustic doghouse bass. I think you're relying on your amp too much for your sound. There's no way you are getting the sound you could be getting namby pambying the strings like that. I do understand that the line you are playing is fast and a bit tricky, however, I would like to see you play "through" the string a bit more for a fuller, pushier sound. I played the line. I think I would do it with two fingers combined... Question: How is your acoustic sound? I believe we create our sound with our whole body and based on your positioning, I'm imagining you don't have a big acoustic sound (yet). This is all pure speculation and now I feel like an ass for even mentioning it. But, you asked me and I'm responding honestly to what I see and hear. In the end, it's all a matter of personal choice. Rockabilly came out of country and blues and those bass players got an enormous thump out of their basses...if I was going for a rockabilly thing I would emulate that vibe.

Now, about those comments in quotation. Newman did not actually say "Rockabilly bass players are not bassists". If you read it carefully he actually said that many three year olds are out there pulling the strings, making a sound, and calling themselves bassists. It's the three year olds that are directly getting dissed here! And..... "some" rockabilly bassist. "Some" is not "all", therefore, your argument that he implies that Rockabilly bass players (that would be to say ALL) are not bass players is inaccurate. Now we all get his jist which was flippant and a little condescending but he probably never meant it to be taken so literally. Out of context it looks very different then embedded within his argument. He just did not say "Rockabilly bass players are not bassists". And that's what your pissed about.

One more thought. People get pissy here on TB occasionally. Most have taken a swipe or two at someone and ducked a swipe now and then. Sometimes these foes end up being good online friends later. Sometime not. Don't take any of this stuff too personal. People are different online than in person, freer, bossier, sometimes belligerent. No worries.
 
#22
Jason Sypher said:
...you could focus a bit more on trying to keep those left hand fingers closer to the board for better accuracy...
Click to expand...

Agreed, I have the same issue with the e-bass. So I'm not grabbing the neck like a baseball bat? So by Newman's definition I can call myself a bassplayer.

Jason Sypher said:
...There's no way you are getting the sound you could be getting namby pambying the strings like that...
Click to expand...

If you listen between 0:36 and 0:42 I think I'm getting a decent sound. I'm pulling the string much like can be seen at the very beginning of the video. Am I not pulling with the correct pizz technique? How's my intonation? Am I simply in the "approximate location of the notes"?

I lose tone for example at 1:06 to 1:22 where I would call it "dribbling" the strings rather than namby pamby. However, there is a rapid succesion of "clicks" (that can not be heard on the crappy recording) which is entirely the intent at this portion of the tune.

I think I need to alternate fingers to achieve the speed of the bass line - I just don't think I could get it with two fingers. Maybe with more experience / practice?

I'm able to accomplish a full loud acoustic tone, but you are very correct, I'm sacrificing tone to accomplish speed in an amplified setting.
 
#24
+ 1 for the thoughts of Jason, Gornick and Square Bear. Thoughts expressed much better that I did originally. I had no intention of slamming any groups, I just commented on what I had seen out and about, and I often become discouraged by guys (usually very young) who think that because they learn three guitar chords that they can pick up an upright and play it professionally. They just don't want to waste time learning or practicing. I do have a tendency to want to discourage that kind of thinking. You guys were right on with your comments.
 
#25
Well, since you keep drawing me back to the video I have to admit that I'm finding that your actually not playing in tune for much of the time. So, no, your fingers are not in the right place. In addition, your playing completely straight (each note is weighted almost exactly the same) when you should be swinging with that kind of shuffle. You're playing the notes but not "driving the bus". I wouldn't bother telling you if not for your overwhelming hubris and inability to move past Newman's rather tame observations. As I said to the OP:

"the big challenge is going to be admitting what you don't know and coming to terms with the very real and immediate truth that you need to do whatever you can to get a really good teacher".

You seem to lack the perspective and humility, that is, in my opinion, vital to becoming a better player. The more you hold on to this defensive stance, the more it seems that you actually relate to the statement (which was never actually made).

For example, you reply:

"I lose tone for example at 1:06 to 1:22 where I would call it "dribbling" the strings rather than namby pamby. However, there is a rapid succesion of "clicks" (that can not be heard on the crappy recording) which is entirely the intent at this portion of the tune."

Who do you think you're talking to on these boards? What's with the punkish attitude? Some of these players are seasoned professionals. We know what you were playing, good recording or not. I "dribble" the strings myself a bit.



My advice is to lose the attitude and learn from the people here who know more about the bass than you do. Stop wasting your time getting all pissy because someone hit a nerve on some baggage that you are carrying around. Really, get over it.
 
#26
Jason Sypher said:
Well, since you keep drawing me back to the video I have to admit that I'm finding that your actually not playing in tune for much of the time. So, no, your fingers are not in the right place. In addition, your playing completely straight (each note is weighted almost exactly the same) when you should be swinging with that kind of shuffle. You're playing the notes but not "driving the bus". I wouldn't bother telling you if not for your overwhelming hubris and inability to move past Newman's rather tame observations. As I said to the OP:

"the big challenge is going to be admitting what you don't know and coming to terms with the very real and immediate truth that you need to do whatever you can to get a really good teacher".

You seem to lack the perspective and humility, that is, in my opinion, vital to becoming a better player. The more you hold on to this defensive stance, the more it seems that you actually relate to the statement (which was never actually made).

For example, you reply:

"I lose tone for example at 1:06 to 1:22 where I would call it "dribbling" the strings rather than namby pamby. However, there is a rapid succesion of "clicks" (that can not be heard on the crappy recording) which is entirely the intent at this portion of the tune."

Who do you think you're talking to on these boards? What's with the punkish attitude? Some of these players are seasoned professionals. We know what you were playing, good recording or not. I "dribble" the strings myself a bit.



My advice is to lose the attitude and learn from the people here who know more about the bass than you do. Stop wasting your time getting all pissy because someone hit a nerve on some baggage that you are carrying around. Really, get over it.
Click to expand...


+ 1.
As usual, there are posters on here trying to get validation for blowing off studying the instrument rather than helping the OP. For every actual success story of bassists who didn't study like Wilbur Ware or Chuck Haden there are thousands who just flat out can't play and want some kind of validation for it on an internet forum.
If you want to take your chances that you are the great genius that can blow off 400 years of collected knowledge about the instrument then knock yourself out.
Otherwise get a couple different method books and a teacher.
 
#27
Jason Sypher said:
"the big challenge is going to be admitting what you don't know and coming to terms with the very real and immediate truth that you need to do whatever you can to get a really good teacher".

You seem to lack the perspective and humility, that is, in my opinion, vital to becoming a better player....
Click to expand...


I think these are important points and it is often ego, that stops people becoming better players - in Jazz/Classical, which were mentioned by the OP - it is really down to the amount of work, you are prepared to put in and people working in those fields can hear it in what is played.

There is no real alternative to putting in the time..?
 
#28
downrightjoe said:
Hello everyone,

... swing and some Jazz, later on as my understanding grows. eventually I want to be classically trained and find work in symphonies and what not.


I can't wait to start learning but I want to do it right from the start and eliminate bad habbits...
Click to expand...


I think these are the crucial points from the Original Poster that have been ignored by some replies...?
 
#30
Well there you have it Downright Joe!

You can be like me, and just play, but play poorly. (Notice the people in my video seem to be enjoying themselves and I am getting paid).

Or you can be like Jason and take the long hard road, and play well. (I didn't notice anyone in Jason's video having a good time).

Or you can be like Newman and insult people who don't play as well as you.
 
#31
downrightjoe said:
.. later on as my understanding grows. eventually I want to be classically trained and find work in symphonies and what not.

I can't wait to start learning but I want to do it right from the start and eliminate bad habbits.
Click to expand...

Bass said:
Well there you have it Downright Joe!

You can be like me, and just play, but play poorly. (Notice the people in my video seem to be enjoying themselves and I am getting paid).

Or you can be like Jason and take the long hard road, and play well.
Click to expand...

Well Joe has already stated what he wants to do in hs original post, if you read it carefullly!

I have isolated the relevant parts above....
 
#32
Bass said:
Well there you have it Downright Joe!

You can be like me, and just play, but play poorly. (Notice the people in my video seem to be enjoying themselves and I am getting paid).
Click to expand...

People get paid to work at McDonald's and you can see people enjoying themselves there, clowns and hookers get paid to make people enjoy themselves, etc. That doesn't weigh into the disscussion or get you any respect here. Many of us get paid for what we do and our audiences enjoy themselves in many different ways.
Bottomline: You are not a serious student of the instrument and you are giving bad, superficial advice.
 
#33
Let's keep this one civil and respectful, everyone. It is possible to disagree without it becoming personal - let's all strive to do that, and make sure we check that we have done that before hitting "submit reply".

For whatever it's worth, my .02c:

* Bass seems to be having fun and getting out of it what he wants. I'm fine with that. Rockabilly bass players are of course bass players. I don't see Bass claiming to possess the technical facility of other posters like Jason or the venerable Mr. Warburton. Rather, I see him claiming that what he's doing is good enough for what he's doing. OTOH, anyone who asks for critique here is likely to get it, and getting critique online takes some thick skin. If you are the critique-er, remember that diplomacy is paramount. If you are the critiqe-ee, careful what you wish for, and don't be too distressed if you get it and it wasn't what you hoped for. This has happened to me many times as well.

* Downrightjoe is getting on the bus at the very beginning of a long journey. Parts of it will be uncomfortable, especially at the beginning. Getting a teacher is a good idea. Diving right in and making mistakes which he can then take to his teacher to help him fix is also fine. We all do that. Damon and I went round and round about this issue a while back, and I don't wish to revisit it in depth again, but suffice to say that experience is educational, and bad experience perhaps moreso if the person in question is motivated and organized enough. It sounds to me like the OP may not yet realize how difficult the journey is, but with the teacher as part of the plan, it sounds like a good plan.

Last, not everybody wants to be a virtuoso, and that's OK. I see lots of people with less than stellar technique out there playing gigs on various instruments and having a good time and having an audience who enjoys hearing them play. Some of these people are in my family. I don't see any reason to denigrate what they do. OTOH, if any of my siblings claimed virtuosity in their technique, I'd keep my mouth shut until asked, and when asked, I'd be honest while still trying to be kind. :)
 
#34
I think you'll see that I kept a civil tone throughout. No one was ever out to get Bass. His collusionist theories fall flat. His inability to see that, yet hold on to his anger is pretty stubborn. I don't know how he failed to notice that there was someone having fun in my video, me. And, yes, silly Bass, I do get paid, in fact, I'll be on tour in Canada this fall with Susan McKeown, come check it out. To the OP I would say, "if you want to play the bass well, get into the process of learning the bass, even more than the idea of performing." The deepest gratification will come from the hard work you put in towards becoming a musical, responsive, creative player. Bass' responses, though entertainingly off-the-wall, provide a lot of information about what not to do to become a better musician (and, as Charlie would say, a better person). Ask questions and listen to players with more knowledge about the instrument. Be open to differing opinions. Think carefully about your goals and parse out what information you can towards reaching those goals. Get a good teacher, put yourself in their hands and ALLOW yourself to be taught.
Meanwhile, cultivate a strong sense of self and don't be defensive and waste valuable time taking advice or critique too personally. Push yourself and strive to be better but don't rush a process that defies rushing. Depth and knowledge takes TIME, REFLECTION and EXPERIENCE. Comparatively, playing well is not a "long hard road", it is a much harder, longer road, to play for years on end and be unsatisfied with your progress. Channel your enthusiasm into a productive, daily, weekly, monthly, yearly pursuit of being the player you want to be. In the end, within a few months most anyone can play a party where the girls are shaking it and having a good time (and there are rewards in that), but by putting more of yourself heart/mind/soul into your musical studies and relationships you will be able to do that AND experience the joy of just playing the bass, just you, just your bass...even if no one hears you but, you.
 
#37
Ok, Heres my two cents worth. I am new to the DB, but have played EB for around twenty five years. I can't wait to take lessons again. I played DB for maybe two years total about six or seven years ago, and had a few lessons which made a world of difference for me. Maybe its because I'm older, but I discovered that the DB can really kick my butt physically if I do not approach it properly. I honestly do not know how the guys that play Rockabilly while jumping all over the place survive. To the OP it seems to only make sense that they should find a good teacher immediately since the goal is to play classical music in a professional environment. Why start out learning bad habits that will need to be corrected later on? This is not only time consuming and difficult, but also expensive. Do yourself a big favor and learn the proper technique from the start, and you will avoid injuries and heartache in the long run. Again I am by any means an expert so YMMV.
 

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