has anyone ever applied a finish by paint brush,or does a question like this have no right even to be on this forum ?!? 
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finishing by brush ?
- Thread starter bassedsouth
- Start date
has anyone ever applied a finish by paint brush,or does a question like this have no right even to be on this forum ?!?
Nothing wrong with that question. I've applied a finish (varnish) to a bass using a brush. It helps to use a high quality brush made for varnish application and one not too wide. I like my 1 1/2" wide badger hair brush for this. The hard part with a brush is avoiding drips and leaving ridges in the varnish from the brush. Thinning varnishes down slightly usually helps.
I find it easier to thin my varnish 50/50 with mineral spirits (paint thinner) or naptha and then apply it with a cotton cloth. You get thin coats this way but less application marks. In fact, wiping varnish on rather than using a brush is a very old method.
There are some varnishes sold especially for wiping on with a cloth, such as Minwax Wipe On Poly. I prefer to mix up my own because this way I don't have to use polyurethane and can use a traditional alkyd varnish or one of the new fast drying varnishes like Benjamin Moore One Hour Clear Finish, which can dry to the touch in 20 minutes and be ready for recoating in less than 2 hours.
But brushing works well if you use a good brush, thin the varnish when needed and use proper brush technique, which is a lot different than slapping it on like a house painter.
When I used to work in joinery, we brushed finish on, then wiped it down with cloth to even it and remove strokes.
Yes, that will work if the varnish doesn't dry too fast. When I use the Moore One Hour Clear Finish it skins over so fast that it's almost impossible to apply with a brush without leaving ridges. Thinning it with a bit of turpentine slows it down some.
I much prefer the look of varnish on dark woods ovcr other finishes, and I prefer the look and feel of alkyd varnish over polyurethane. The problem is it's getting harder to find the good stuff. For example, I'd like to use Behlens Rock Hard Tabletop Varnish, but nobody sells it in Canada and they won't ship it here. Waterlox makes a good, hard varnish too which is available locally. Expensive though compared to poly.
But there are others who prefer poly and that's available everywhere.
Take a look at the sticky under finishing.
But a quick answer.
There are soo many levels of finishing that its no joke.
Basic-
Minwax Poly in the can OR Minwax Poly wipe on. You can apply either with a foam brush or Varnish Brush. I use foam. You will need a bunch of foam brushes and sand paper from 400 to 2000 grit.
There are a bunch of brands and quality out there; Behrens, Deft, Target Coatings etc. But the minwax is most widely available and most widely used. All can be used with either foam or brush.
But a quick answer.
There are soo many levels of finishing that its no joke.
Basic-
Minwax Poly in the can OR Minwax Poly wipe on. You can apply either with a foam brush or Varnish Brush. I use foam. You will need a bunch of foam brushes and sand paper from 400 to 2000 grit.
There are a bunch of brands and quality out there; Behrens, Deft, Target Coatings etc. But the minwax is most widely available and most widely used. All can be used with either foam or brush.
Would this be a use for a sponge brush?
(I know NOTHING about finishing...!)
Yes you can use a foam brush with the wipe on varnishes (but not the gelled type wipe on) but just don't overload the brush. Each coat requires a new brush since you can' tclean them very easily. They also tend to dissolve in some of the very fast drying varnishes because of the solvents used. If I'm applying the wipe on varnishes such as MinWax Wipe On Poly I use a shop towel made by Kimberly klarke (I think that's how it's spelled) that I buy at Home Depot. It's tough, absorbent and smooth enough to leave no ridges. One square folded up works beautifully. Or else I use clean white T shirt material cut in 12" squares and folded. For full strength brushing varnish I like a really good varnish brush made from badger and soft bristle. They aren't cheap and you have to take good care of them but they work very well. I have used foam brushes for full strength varnish but find a good brush superior.
I don't have spay equipment yet, so I use a brush (bristle), foam brush and whatever appropriate cloth rags I have accumulated. The brushes are always the cheapest variety I can find.
The thing with brushing, is there is more sanding involved to prep for the next coat. On necks, fingerboards (fretless conversions) and pickup covers, it's no big deal. But with bodies, sanding takes a while with the thicker coats. I'm going to try nitro and one or two other finishes soon, which should be easier to work with. Applying a thinner finish with a rag is less work.
The thing with brushing, is there is more sanding involved to prep for the next coat. On necks, fingerboards (fretless conversions) and pickup covers, it's no big deal. But with bodies, sanding takes a while with the thicker coats. I'm going to try nitro and one or two other finishes soon, which should be easier to work with. Applying a thinner finish with a rag is less work.
Question for Wipe-On Poly users, please: Can it be successfully applied over spraypaint?
I'm refinishing an old bass that will be painted. Was gonna go the traditional nitro spraying route but I just don't have a suitable space for spraying (not to mention being around the nasty chems that're released & the sorta lengthy cure time). I keep seeing the ease of Wipe-On mentioned here & elsewhere so I'm intrigued. Google has not been helpful in answering.
I'm refinishing an old bass that will be painted. Was gonna go the traditional nitro spraying route but I just don't have a suitable space for spraying (not to mention being around the nasty chems that're released & the sorta lengthy cure time). I keep seeing the ease of Wipe-On mentioned here & elsewhere so I'm intrigued. Google has not been helpful in answering.
The wipe on poly will go on over paint as long as you prep the paint first by very fine sanding to help adhesion.
One thing though-all these alkyd or poly finishes that are oil based will slightly add an amber colour, so it might not look good on white and other very light colours.
You can buy water based varnishes that will not yellow but they aren't good to apply with a cloth. They work best with a synthetic brush or paint applicator pad. The pad thing though is probably too large to work with on a bass body. I haven't worked too much with the water based varnish. I did some stairs once with Varathane water based varnish applied with a brush. Very fast drying and you have to be careful with it foaming up when brushing. You don't have much time to tip it off to level it. It gave a very clear coating when dry with no yellowing. Seemed to cure pretty hard too after a few days, but I didn't try polishing it out. May have had some acrylic resin in it.
And don't think that using something other than nitro will get you past the "sorta lengthy cure time". Varnishes take even longer to cure hard. than nitro.
One thing though-all these alkyd or poly finishes that are oil based will slightly add an amber colour, so it might not look good on white and other very light colours.
You can buy water based varnishes that will not yellow but they aren't good to apply with a cloth. They work best with a synthetic brush or paint applicator pad. The pad thing though is probably too large to work with on a bass body. I haven't worked too much with the water based varnish. I did some stairs once with Varathane water based varnish applied with a brush. Very fast drying and you have to be careful with it foaming up when brushing. You don't have much time to tip it off to level it. It gave a very clear coating when dry with no yellowing. Seemed to cure pretty hard too after a few days, but I didn't try polishing it out. May have had some acrylic resin in it.
And don't think that using something other than nitro will get you past the "sorta lengthy cure time". Varnishes take even longer to cure hard. than nitro.
62bass I was about to hijack this thread (sorry Based ) when read your last post. Yesterday I bought a can of water based poly (this one Link Removed) and some cheap brushes. The can says it could be applied with a synthetic bristle brush (I got natural one). Then in this thread you said a varnish could be thinned so it could be applied wiping it and I thought I could do that. Soooo... What I'm trying here is to ask these:
1. Can I try to do this 50/50 thinning with Varathane so I can wipe it on?
2. If not, the natural bristle brush are Ok or I have to get synthetic ones.
3. Any recommendation with Varathane (brushing or wiping it?)before jump into the pool?
) when read your last post. Yesterday I bought a can of water based poly (this one Link Removed) and some cheap brushes. The can says it could be applied with a synthetic bristle brush (I got natural one). Then in this thread you said a varnish could be thinned so it could be applied wiping it and I thought I could do that. Soooo... What I'm trying here is to ask these:1. Can I try to do this 50/50 thinning with Varathane so I can wipe it on?
2. If not, the natural bristle brush are Ok or I have to get synthetic ones.
3. Any recommendation with Varathane (brushing or wiping it?)before jump into the pool?
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Unlike oil-based finishes, most water-borne finishes barely tolerate thinning - not recommended.
Brushes with natural bristles work best with oil-based finishes, but tend to go limp when used with water-based finishes; for best results, use a brush with synthetic bristles to apply water-borne finishes.
There's a lot of good finishing infomation on Jeff Jewitt's website:
www.homesteadfinishing.com
Good luck!
Brushes with natural bristles work best with oil-based finishes, but tend to go limp when used with water-based finishes; for best results, use a brush with synthetic bristles to apply water-borne finishes.
There's a lot of good finishing infomation on Jeff Jewitt's website:
www.homesteadfinishing.com
Good luck!
Jazzdog is right. I like good quality synthetic brushes for water based stuff and shellac. You shouldn't thin water based finishes with anything but a very small amount of water. Definitely not with varathane or any oil based finish or solvent. Oil and water don't mix. It's best to use the water based finishes as they come in the can. Some companies sell a thinner for their product and you might be able to get away with a bit of it.
Follow the directions on the can and practice on some scrap wood first so you get the hang of applying it evenly and get to see how fast it dries. You don't get much time to brush out mistakes.
Follow the directions on the can and practice on some scrap wood first so you get the hang of applying it evenly and get to see how fast it dries. You don't get much time to brush out mistakes.
I used to work in an unfinished furniture store and one of my duties was using Minwax or Watco (not sure if Watco still exists) on unfinished Oak. I was taught a technique they called "wet sanding." It's simple, apply the finish oil with a rag, while its wet you sand it with super fine sand paper (the black sheets). You end up with a super glossy hard finish. It's really nice. I always wanted to try this on a solid guitar body.
Does anyone know if finishing or painting a solid body bass or guitar adds anything to the tone?
Does anyone know if finishing or painting a solid body bass or guitar adds anything to the tone?
Spamnebula RustOleum still produces Watco. I talked to the reseller here and told me that theyll have all watco product on summer which starts here in december so yes, Watco still exists.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Funny you should mention wet-sanding; I finished a mahogany bass by wet-sanding four coats of Liberon Finishing Oil (220, 320, 400, and 600-grit - each a day apart), followed by french polishing. Turned out great!
Despite some unsubstantiated claims to the contrary, I remain unconvinced that finish has any effect on the tone of solid-bodied electric instruments.
Tru-oil may be another finish you want to check out. Tru-oil is a gun stock oil and man does it look surprisingly nice with several coats, I've used the stuff on many projects now. I just apply it with a paper-towel, although it takes a bit of finesse to get the hang of it.
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I use the wet sanding on wood where I won't rub through a stain and it does work very well Very nice finish
The finish doesn't affect tone one bit on a solid body instrument
Please excuse my lack of punctuation My "period" key isn't working Time to get out the contact cleaner
Glad to see Watco still exists , I preferred it over Minwax, although Minwax worked just fine, I'll look into the Liberon & True brand as I'm not familiar with these. Yes I remember now we used several grits getting finer with each coat. It was more than 20 years ago that I did it but I never forgot how impressed I was with the finish. I also agree that finish has no effect on the sound of a solid body electric.
In regards to the original topic, I'd rather oil finish it than paint it. Regardless, I enjoy seeing the personal modifications people make on their instruments.
In regards to the original topic, I'd rather oil finish it than paint it. Regardless, I enjoy seeing the personal modifications people make on their instruments.
