Finishing/Color Theory

[VegasCustom]

Hey guys, Im nearing the finish process for my first line. It consists of 11 guitars/basses/baritones.
Now what I'm learning through tests is that I know next to nothing of color theory or finish "science" or whatever. Has there been a thread on here covering finishes and color theory in depth?

 

[Matt Liebenau]

We have the water borne finishes thread. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/us...-coatings-9000-6000-and-varathane-wb.1116168/.

Its long and I don’t remember where we get into Varathane Ultimate finish but that would be a good place to dive in. I have been using VU for clear coating and Createx for colors. The Createx Colors YouTube channel has some videos about mixing colors and color theory as it applies to their paints anyway.

 

[VegasCustom]

Another Thank You!!!

 

[T_Bone_TL]

My theory (unpolular, I guess) is let the wood be wood. I see folks dismissing lovely hunks of wood as only suitable to be obliterated with paint and generally fail to agree. But do what you want to do, as you're not me, and I'm not you.

Practice wise, find/make a color you like (or that you think your customers will like...) and then test the finish all the way to done on something that is NOT a guitar you've spent a lot of effort on. If you find problems on scrap, you can change things to find something that works, before you apply it to a guitar. In any case you'll have some practice with the processes and materials before you start slapping them on guitars.

 

[VegasCustom]

My theory (unpolular, I guess) is let the wood be wood. I see folks dismissing lovely hunks of wood as only suitable to be obliterated with paint and generally fail to agree. But do what you want to do, as you're not me, and I'm not you.

Practice wise, find/make a color you like (or that you think your customers will like...) and then test the finish all the way to done on something that is NOT a guitar you've spent a lot of effort on. If you find problems on scrap, you can change thigs to find something that works, before you apply it to a guitar. In any case you'll have some practice with the processes and materials before you start slapping them on guitars.

Im leaning towards staining that shows the grain because I also want the wood to shine and not be covered like an M&M.. BUT I will do that to a few that have some issues just to hide them

 

[Grinderman]

Im leaning towards staining that shows the grain because I also want the wood to shine and not be covered like an M&M.. BUT I will do that to a few that have some issues just to hide them

If you're leaning toward preserving the pure character of the wood, including natural color without any attempts to intervene where butting pieces of the same species happen to be quite dissimilar in lightness or darkness--truth-in-materials aesthetic--then there's not much to consider regarding color theory.

It's more a matter of selecting your preferred finish system, then what standard finish sheen you want.

 

[boxerrider]

I am not good at it, but getting better. Have been using dyes more than stains - you have more control with them. In some cases I’ll put a stain over dye (not dye over stain) to get a heavy-grained wood fairly dark.
I usually apply dyes directly to the wood and then clear over, while others tint the clear and apply that. Either way, definitely go through the whole set of processes before making a decision. Sometimes the last thing or two you do makes a big difference. be prepared to commit a sizable amount of time and material. . . It will be worth it.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

A quick technical point: If you want the grain to stand out in sharp contrast, a stain is not the best way to do that. Instead, fill the grain with some finish with opaque pigment, then sand it back. That's how you make grain and figuring really pop and show up. Whether it's "natural" wood or a transparent color finish.

The finish on my Walnut series Scroll Basses is intended to look like walnut furniture from the 1940's. I start by pushing black-tinted epoxy down into the grain, sand it back, then spray Varathane lightly tinted with dark brown over it. It's transparent, so you can easily see the grain through it, but it darkens the natural shade of the walnut. And I sand those color coats a little bit to make them slightly uneven and patchy, like old hand-rubbed furniture. Then clear coat it and buff it up to a gloss. It looks like polished Old Wood, but it's created with a tough modern finish.

 

[mikewalker]

I only have one color theory: Blue is the most popular color

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Im leaning towards staining that shows the grain because I also want the wood to shine and not be covered like an M&M.. BUT I will do that to a few that have some issues just to hide them

In that case, look up BigD guitars on the YouTubes. He has recently done a couple of color theory videos with Angelus leather dye.

 

[Beej]

I only have one color theory: Blue is the most popular color

Black disagrees with you.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Black disagrees with you.

Red drives by with the top down so the bikini team can get some fresh air.

 

[Beej]

Red drives by with the top down so the bikini team can get some fresh air.

Meanwhile, leaning against a jukebox be-jacketed in leather, is White, playing metal.

 

[ardgedee]

Not sure what you mean by color theory. Color Theory is about combinations of colors and relationships between colors. If you're simply painting/staining/tinting something a single color, theory is not something you have to worry much about.

If you're going to have multiple colors, there are tools for finding colors that work together. Coolors is a pretty massive tool for finding color combinations that harmonize or contrast successfully. It's pretty overwhelming but it's free and worth poking at. Invalid Link Removed is simpler (enter a color in hex, it generates a bunch of four-color complements) but also kind of rote in its choices.

This seems all very interior-designy (the sites' UIs are optimized with that in mind) but the principles are going to be the same regardless of what you're painting. If you want to pair a particular paint color with a pickguard, it can be worth a try.

 

[Thumpin6string]

Both of mine were a light golden stain and a wipe on gel urethane. The fretted came out the best, but was done 20 years ago and the gel is no longer made.

 

[micguy]

Black disagrees with you.

If we're arguing color theory, black is not a color.

 

[ardgedee]

If we're arguing color theory, black is not a color.

If we're arguing color theory, black is not a color the absence of color (additive palettes) or the sum of all colors (subtractive palettes).

(edited for correctness)

 

[Grinderman]

If we're arguing color theory, black is not a color.

If we're arguing color theory, black is not a color the absence of color (additive palettes) or the sum of all colors (subtractive palettes).

(edited for correctness)

Additive (light--electromagnetic spectrum the human eye see) vs. Subtractive (pigment) color

Because we can't see without light, we can't describe black as a color. What we perceive as black is just a very dark hue. We can perceive very dark yellow as black.

As far as paint is concerned, black is equal parts red, blue, and yellow paint mixed together. Simply mixing two opposite colors on the color wheel can make black too.

Names we as a society assign to colors are social constructs.

 

[Grinderman]

A simple water-white clear finish on wood with a low to moderate sheen would appear most natural.

(Not black)

 

[Grinderman]

A simple water-white clear finish on wood with a low to moderate sheen would appear most natural.

Here's a nice example with Ash. I've been meaning to finish a Swamp Ash body like this.

Mattiazzi in Northern Italy near Udine and the Slovenian border makes beautiful wood chairs and tables.