I have a short pattern follower bit for getting routs started and doing things like the recess for covers and a longer bit for finishing things off and body sides.
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First Build - "Lucifer"
- Thread starter TerribleTim68
- Start date
I have a short pattern follower bit for getting routs started and doing things like the recess for covers and a longer bit for finishing things off and body sides.
If you do use solarez and a stain under it, use a water or alcohol based stain. If you use a solvent based stain, let it dry/cure for 100 yrs before applying the solarez.
I was impatient and applied the solarez too soon and had all kindsa nonsense going on.
I'm using it on the next project and any stain will be water or alcohol based and I'm not going to let myself be an impatient idiot and ruin months of work.
(I say that every time)
I was impatient and applied the solarez too soon and had all kindsa nonsense going on.
I'm using it on the next project and any stain will be water or alcohol based and I'm not going to let myself be an impatient idiot and ruin months of work.
(I say that every time)
So continuing our finish convo -
What are you guys' thoughts on sanding / grain fillers? This wenge is evil and super chippy so it tends to leave a lot of tear out from just working it. I feel like I need to use some sort of sanding / grain sealer. I have the Zinsser Seal Coat from other projects. The website states "100% wax free Shellac, Gives extra beauty & warmth to water-base polyurethanes, Compatible with ALL clear finishes." I wonder how it would do under something like 2K or even the Varathane Ultimate.
I also know that the Zinsser product will give me the exact ambering I think I'm looking for here.
Thoughts?
What are you guys' thoughts on sanding / grain fillers? This wenge is evil and super chippy so it tends to leave a lot of tear out from just working it. I feel like I need to use some sort of sanding / grain sealer. I have the Zinsser Seal Coat from other projects. The website states "100% wax free Shellac, Gives extra beauty & warmth to water-base polyurethanes, Compatible with ALL clear finishes." I wonder how it would do under something like 2K or even the Varathane Ultimate.
I also know that the Zinsser product will give me the exact ambering I think I'm looking for here.
Thoughts?
Rôckhewer
Commercial User
- Feb 28, 2015
- 2,922
- 9,028
- Disclosures
- Owner/Builder- RockHewer Custom Guitars LLC
Hey I'm a big fan of toxic chemicals.
Every time I hear you cats talk about wipe on this, or water-based that... It all sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher to me. No offense... but I dig a nasty catalyst. Heck...the stuff for my conversion varnish even has some kind of acid in it...
That said... you don't necessarily need a spray rig to paint 2K clear.
Try one of these spray cans with a catalyst chamber thing... one time use.
Lay down some shellac for ambering ... then Pop... shake... go.
USC SprayMax 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0082LJMC6/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_JWDVXRZJMJQGRRTAATNM
Disclaimer... I've never used, so cannot personally endorse.
Yeah, that's real similar to the stuff I've been using, the Eastwood 2K high gloss in the aerosol can. I figure if I can't ruin the O-zone with the "Aqua Net" ratting my hair out anymore, this should suffice.Hey I'm a big fan of toxic chemicals.
Every time I hear you cats talk about wipe on this, or water-based that... It all sounds like Charlie Brown's teacher to me. No offense... but I dig a nasty catalyst. Heck...the stuff for my conversion varnish even has some kind of acid in it...
That said... you don't necessarily need a spray rig to paint 2K clear.
Try one of these spray cans with a catalyst chamber thing... one time use.
Lay down some shellac for ambering ... then Pop... shake... go.
USC SprayMax 2K Glamour High Gloss Aerosol Clear https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0082LJMC6/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_JWDVXRZJMJQGRRTAATNM
Disclaimer... I've never used, so cannot personally endorse.
Use the Eastwood. I went through 3 bad cans of Spraymax once. Never again. Well the 4th can was fine, but was a different lot. Still Eastwood has a good rep.Yeah, that's real similar to the stuff I've been using, the Eastwood 2K high gloss in the aerosol can. I figure if I can't ruin the O-zone with the "Aqua Net" ratting my hair out anymore, this should suffice.
Okay, I think I've settled my finish questions. I think we're just gonna use the Zinsser Seal Coat as we do the final sanding to help fill in any grain and level this thing out. That should provide the amber I want without getting too crazy, plus I have it on hand already and can test it on a piece of scrap to see the color ahead of time. Then we'll hit it with Eastwood 2K high gloss clear, since I know that product. I want to spend more time buffing and polishing this one than I've done on past finish projects. I need to brush up on my buffing/polishing skillz now that I have a lathe and some buffing wheels too, something I never had on those past projects.
Thanks for the input guys, and thanks for putting up with my shotgun blast spewing of questions/comments. Hopefully I can get back in the shop after dinner tonight and finish off that battery box recess, the last big hole I need to cut before we start.....wait for it......sanding! 
Thanks for the input guys, and thanks for putting up with my shotgun blast spewing of questions/comments. Hopefully I can get back in the shop after dinner tonight and finish off that battery box recess, the last big hole I need to cut before we start.....wait for it......sanding!
Have to ask, did you read up on the Osmo Polyx ? https://osmocolorusa.com/information/compare-osmo/Okay, I think I've settled my finish questions. I think we're just gonna use the Zinsser Seal Coat as we do the final sanding to help fill in any grain and level this thing out. That should provide the amber I want without getting too crazy, plus I have it on hand already and can test it on a piece of scrap to see the color ahead of time. Then we'll hit it with Eastwood 2K high gloss clear, since I know that product. I want to spend more time buffing and polishing this one than I've done on past finish projects. I need to brush up on my buffing/polishing skillz now that I have a lathe and some buffing wheels too, something I never had on those past projects.
Thanks for the input guys, and thanks for putting up with my shotgun blast spewing of questions/comments. Hopefully I can get back in the shop after dinner tonight and finish off that battery box recess, the last big hole I need to cut before we start.....wait for it......sanding!
I like that it hardens the surface rather than put a coat on top. Literally hardwood floor material.
Just sayin...
Can't say I have. But then we're back to products I don't know, and that includes how they react to the wood color and other products used during the process, which means testing.Have to ask, did you read up on the Osmo Polyx ? https://osmocolorusa.com/information/compare-osmo/
I like that it hardens the surface rather than put a coat on top. Literally hardwood floor material.
Just sayin...
Ah, I'm familiar with a number of wipe-on products, so this feels very familiar to me.
One thing, the Zinsser shellac is a good sealer especially if you’re not sure about the compatibility of different finishes but it’s not much of a grain filler unless you put a LOT on.
But Wait, There's More! -
Now that @Gilmourisgod found my router bit, I headed back out to the garage after dinner for some more work. Oh yeah, I tried to cancel that Amazon order, but it already shipped. Go figure.
Let's get back to that battery box! I went ahead and set up the plunge router and started going at it for the depth I could get out of that. Then switched bases to the fixed base and got down a bit more. We now have a battery box cavity -
You can see where the collet got down a bit too far and burned it some before I noticed the issue and made a small adjustment. That's what I was worried about.
Okay, let's get a hole for the wires punched through there. Chuck up a brad point and come in from the pup cavity, because there was more room there to get the drill at a low angle -
That pic shows just how thin the wall between the pup cavity and the battery box cavity is. Yeah, barely enough room in this thing. Didn't I say something about proper planning?
Anyways, it fits!
-
Yeah, it sits at an angle. That was literally the only way I could fit it in there around everything else. I probably shouldn't have carved that bevel over so early. Something something proper planning....or something. Oh well, I'm okay with it. I've seen similar on production models, so whatever.
Back To That Control Cavity -
I still needed to get a control cavity cover shaped and then route the lip it sits in. Since @RichterScale was kind enough to send me those wenge laminates he re-sawed, let's do the right thing here. First up, do "the trick" again on the template for that lip -
Then get after it with a very carefully set router. The bearing was barely riding on the template, so I had to be real careful here. But in the end, it came out pretty clean -
I am aware that the lip probably doesn't need to be that wide. Whatever, it's my very first build, I'm still learning here.
After some work on the disk sander, I got the cover to fit in there, so it can't be all bad -
It ended up down in there farther than it needed to be, so I have some work to do to sand it out level. It's a very small amount, but it bugs me. Like I said, the router bit bearing was just barely riding on my template, so I couldn't raise it up any more or the bearing would have been "above" the template. After this pic I went ahead and drilled my screw holes where I left the "ears" in the body and then used a countersink bit to bevel those holes in the cover plate. No pic of that. My cover fits in pretty snug, I need to think about a way to actually get it out of there without needing something to pry it out with.
Focusing On Finishing -
No, not finishing the build. I think if I play this right I can drag this out for at least another year. But, we do need to think about the finish we want to put on this. Earlier today I had sort of settled on Zinsser Seal Coat and 2K thinking that the Zinsser would give me the amber I'm looking for. I want some, but not too much. Okay, let's test it on a scrap piece. I gave it a sanding on the disk sander to clean it up some, then applied the Zinsser to it -
So that's the Zinsser on the right side, natural fresh sanded on the left. I like that!
Wait, What The... -
I gave the Zinsser a bit to dry and it started turning very clear. Not what I want. So I hit the other half of it with Danish Oil -
So that's the Danish Oil on the left and the Zinsser after it dried on the right (still natural fresh sanded down the middle). The Danish Oil looks way better to me! But now I'm back to an oil and I'm not sure 2K is gonna go over that and play nice nice.
I don't know, I'm as confused as ever now.
I may apply the Zinsser a few more times and see if it darkens up some more before I move forward.
What Next -
I think I'm done with all the major operations here. I think I've finished drilling, routing, chopping, cutting and carving on this thing. I think the only thing really left to do is start sanding and prep'ing for finish (whatever it ends up being). I also need to do some wiring on the major control pieces that can be pre-assembled before they go in the cavity. I also know that I want to go over the fret ends one more time, and I still need to finish shaping that nut. I'll need to consider some sort of shielding too I guess since this isn't EMGs. But yeah, I think we're getting pretty close here. Unless I'm missing something.
My wife is starting to get excited because it is starting to look like it could actually be aaplayable instrument. I'm starting to get excited about the possibility of hearing it make noise myself. But I'm also worried about every little thing and screwing this whole thing up right at the 5 yard line. Something about 90% of it being in the finish. Pray for me!
Now that @Gilmourisgod found my router bit, I headed back out to the garage after dinner for some more work. Oh yeah, I tried to cancel that Amazon order, but it already shipped. Go figure.
Let's get back to that battery box! I went ahead and set up the plunge router and started going at it for the depth I could get out of that. Then switched bases to the fixed base and got down a bit more. We now have a battery box cavity -
You can see where the collet got down a bit too far and burned it some before I noticed the issue and made a small adjustment. That's what I was worried about.
Okay, let's get a hole for the wires punched through there. Chuck up a brad point and come in from the pup cavity, because there was more room there to get the drill at a low angle -
That pic shows just how thin the wall between the pup cavity and the battery box cavity is. Yeah, barely enough room in this thing. Didn't I say something about proper planning?
Anyways, it fits!
-Yeah, it sits at an angle. That was literally the only way I could fit it in there around everything else. I probably shouldn't have carved that bevel over so early. Something something proper planning....or something. Oh well, I'm okay with it. I've seen similar on production models, so whatever.
Back To That Control Cavity -
I still needed to get a control cavity cover shaped and then route the lip it sits in. Since @RichterScale was kind enough to send me those wenge laminates he re-sawed, let's do the right thing here. First up, do "the trick" again on the template for that lip -
Then get after it with a very carefully set router. The bearing was barely riding on the template, so I had to be real careful here. But in the end, it came out pretty clean -
I am aware that the lip probably doesn't need to be that wide. Whatever, it's my very first build, I'm still learning here.
After some work on the disk sander, I got the cover to fit in there, so it can't be all bad -
It ended up down in there farther than it needed to be, so I have some work to do to sand it out level. It's a very small amount, but it bugs me. Like I said, the router bit bearing was just barely riding on my template, so I couldn't raise it up any more or the bearing would have been "above" the template. After this pic I went ahead and drilled my screw holes where I left the "ears" in the body and then used a countersink bit to bevel those holes in the cover plate. No pic of that. My cover fits in pretty snug, I need to think about a way to actually get it out of there without needing something to pry it out with.
Focusing On Finishing -
No, not finishing the build. I think if I play this right I can drag this out for at least another year.
But, we do need to think about the finish we want to put on this. Earlier today I had sort of settled on Zinsser Seal Coat and 2K thinking that the Zinsser would give me the amber I'm looking for. I want some, but not too much. Okay, let's test it on a scrap piece. I gave it a sanding on the disk sander to clean it up some, then applied the Zinsser to it -So that's the Zinsser on the right side, natural fresh sanded on the left. I like that!
Wait, What The... -
I gave the Zinsser a bit to dry and it started turning very clear. Not what I want. So I hit the other half of it with Danish Oil -
So that's the Danish Oil on the left and the Zinsser after it dried on the right (still natural fresh sanded down the middle). The Danish Oil looks way better to me! But now I'm back to an oil and I'm not sure 2K is gonna go over that and play nice nice.
I don't know, I'm as confused as ever now.
I may apply the Zinsser a few more times and see if it darkens up some more before I move forward.
What Next -
I think I'm done with all the major operations here. I think I've finished drilling, routing, chopping, cutting and carving on this thing. I think the only thing really left to do is start sanding and prep'ing for finish (whatever it ends up being). I also need to do some wiring on the major control pieces that can be pre-assembled before they go in the cavity. I also know that I want to go over the fret ends one more time, and I still need to finish shaping that nut. I'll need to consider some sort of shielding too I guess since this isn't EMGs. But yeah, I think we're getting pretty close here. Unless I'm missing something.
My wife is starting to get excited because it is starting to look like it could actually be aaplayable instrument. I'm starting to get excited about the possibility of hearing it make noise myself. But I'm also worried about every little thing and screwing this whole thing up right at the 5 yard line. Something about 90% of it being in the finish. Pray for me!
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Oh, since I know someone is gonna say "Why the plastic battery box and not a matching wood cover?" I wanted this battery box because it is a quick release to swap batteries out. I'm not a fan of screws into wood for something that will be removed over and over and over. This solution seemed better for long lasting.
Okay, so I spent some time on the Google's because clearly I can't be the first guy too wonder about spraying 2K over Danish Oil. My Google-Fu led me to several articles that say "Yes, you CAN spray 2K over Danish Oil, provided you allow the Danish Oil to fully dry and cure. So 4 to 5 days. Or, maybe I'll just give it 2 weeks. Whatever.
I think I will still use the Zinsser during my sanding though.
I think I will still use the Zinsser during my sanding though.
I like the battery box at an angle. It looks more purposeful to me. Designs that express "I had to try hard to make this fit" are more pleasing to me than designs that express "there's so much excess space (or whatever resource) here that we just plopped it down."
I know this is way too late to be helpful, but if that ever happens again, put a shim under the template (between the template and the body). Nothing says the template has to be on the actual body - if you put some scrap 1/8" stock between the template and the body, your bit can ride higher up and allow you to take a shallower pass. I have a couple template sets for routing control recesses and other things like that where I purposefully do that in order to tackle challenging situations.
One way to address the lip being too deep would be to put some shim stock on the lip - or even just a small washer glued around each screw hole.
You are really knocking this out of the park for a first time builder!
I know this is way too late to be helpful, but if that ever happens again, put a shim under the template (between the template and the body). Nothing says the template has to be on the actual body - if you put some scrap 1/8" stock between the template and the body, your bit can ride higher up and allow you to take a shallower pass. I have a couple template sets for routing control recesses and other things like that where I purposefully do that in order to tackle challenging situations.
One way to address the lip being too deep would be to put some shim stock on the lip - or even just a small washer glued around each screw hole.
You are really knocking this out of the park for a first time builder!
Thanks Dwizum. I think I've fallen so far down this rabbit hole. I've really enjoyed this build and am already looking forward to the next one.
I thought about shimming the template like you said. My concern was keeping it true and flat to the body so my fear got the best of me there.
You could always glue another thin layer of something to the underside of the cover and then sand it back down to final thickness.
