• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Double Bass First EUB build - ZEUBI

#21
agfrag - thanks for that info about the piezos! I planned to have buffers between the elements and their respective contact surfaces and based on your experience, I am not more optimistic about how they are going to sound.

Now I just need to scrape together the dough for strings...
 
#22
You're welcome tZer. Most people were using bicycle tubing...I just happened to have some black Theraband sheet rubber they use for physical therapy, it was thinner, more fitting for a small cello.

Yes, the strings are a major investment for sure, compared to the rest of teh instrument!
 
#23
agfrag said:
You're welcome tZer. Most people were using bicycle tubing...I just happened to have some black Theraband sheet rubber they use for physical therapy, it was thinner, more fitting for a small cello.

Yes, the strings are a major investment for sure, compared to the rest of teh instrument!
Click to expand...

I have felt buffers in my pickup plans - and I've seen other people saying they have used pieces cut from thin mouse pads. It's good to know that the buffers play such a key role in taming the piezos.

As for strings - I'd forgotten that a friend gave me a gift card to one of our local guitar shops a while back. I found it in my wallet and called the shop to see if I they carried, or could order upright strings, and they can. So next week I will be paying them a visit and getting my strings ordered.

I also just did a gig over the Labor Day weekend - I am not in any active bands these days - I reunite with one of my old bands each year for this little neighborhood picnic jam - and the paycheck from that gig should cover the tuning machines I need to score.

Both the strings and tuners have been holding up production so I am glad I'll be getting over that hump soon.

I am going to alter my plan of E,A,D,G,C - and go ahead with a low B instead of a high C. I figure I can make a second bridge - and maybe a replaceable nut - if I want to swap out this configuration.
 
#24
Good for you tZer! Btw, I used to live in the area, sorta, in Overland south of the airport on Niblic. There used to be a music store within walking distance that absorbed a lot of my money when I was there, back in the early '90's. I made a lot of friends in the "show me" state!
 
#26
Can't believe I found a receipt from them, but it was Mc Murray Music (serving all your music needs since 1946!), 10201 Page. I guess it's called the St. Louis Music Mall as of August 16th, far as I can tell. Used to be quite a full service shop. I actually special ordered one of the first Martin acoustic basses through them, but when I got it, it was the quietest thing, you could barely hear it in a quiet room. They took it back, and I bought an Ovation Applause fretted 4 string in June '91, , which was a lot louder, and which I still have today!
 
#27
I was able to get some more time in on the build this week.

Here is an overall shot showing the fingerboard glued down and the 16th inch veneers of spruce laminated to the body face peg box faces.

top_view1.jpg




Side view showing the maple to mahogany transition and the hard maple back.

side_view1.jpg



Pre-nut fingerboard end at peg box. The nut will be made from what was left of the purpleheart fingerboard and will sit on top of the spruce which will give it enough of a boost to provide string clearance.

pre_nut1.jpg



Peg box with spruce veneer. I will be tapering the peg box and cutting a void out of the middle so the tuning machines will mount with the spindles poking into the void and the keys facing back like a real upright.

peg_head1.jpg



Another overall shot. Gives a fair idea of what the finished instrument will look like. I haven't decided if I am going to stain or dye the spruce. We'll see where my mood is when the time comes.

top_view2.jpg




This week I plan to order my strings and tuning machines. Once those arrive things will kick into high gear and I'll get this baby finished!
 
#29
Thanks! Just ordered my tuning machines a few seconds ago. I'll be heading off to a local shop to order my strings later today - if the minister of finance at the Z house approves my budget reallocation request, that is...

Damn pricey upright strings! It's obvious why people build EUB's at standard BG scales. But I have to believe that the 41.5" (and up) scale plays a big role in the overall sound of the instrument. I imagine EUB's built at 34" scale just sound like fretless electric bass guitars and the only difference is that you can bow them and play them like an upright.

I've heard a lot of full-scale EUBs that still sound like fretless bass guitars, generally speaking, so I think there's always going to be that flavor in this sort of instrument. But I am hoping that the 41+" scale does lend itself to a more authentic upright sound.
 
#30
I have made some encouraging headway over the last few weeks. Sorry for the sub-par phone pics.

I am pleased to report that:
1) It's strung (NS Electric Upright Strings)
2) The piezo bridge works (surprisingly well!)

IMAG0403.jpg


IMAG0417.jpg


It's still 'raw'. I am going to play it for a while and make notes about pre-finishing shaping that needs to happen and so forth before I commit to a finish.

I am pleased with the results so far. I cannot get over how simple the piezo bridge is. I plan to experiment with muting and woods to see what impacts the sound. Right now it is all straight transducer to output jack - less then $2 worth of parts - and a ton of pretty acceptable sound right out of the gate.

I mounted to a stand using a tom bracket and mount on a heavy-duty music stand - for now. I am shopping for a tom stand to replace the music stand.

IMAG0406.jpg



Here are some misc pics. I plan to take it to a jam at the end of the month, give it a good work out, then finish it up in time for the holidays.

And now, those misc pics.

IMAG0399.jpg


IMAG0398.jpg


IMAG0397.jpg


IMAG0400.jpg
 
#32
agfrag said:
Congrats on the progress! Of course, the next obvious question is: Any sound clips?!?!
Click to expand...

Soon.

I put it straight thru the PA and it was really bright sounding. Too bright. But thru my SS Acoustic head I could EQ it and it sounded fine. I want to get it to sound good with as little EQing as possible so I am going to experiment with muting/buffering the piezo a bit. After I tame it some I will do some sound clips.
 
#33
My DIY EUB was also very bright. I added cork under the bridge feet and underneath the bolt on neck. I would even consider adding it under the nut as well. I also used a piece of foam under the strings at the nut so the open notes matched the timbre of a "fretted" notes.
 
#35
tZer said:
Soon.
I put it straight thru the PA and it was really bright sounding. Too bright. But thru my SS Acoustic head I could EQ it and it sounded fine. I want to get it to sound good with as little EQing as possible so I am going to experiment with muting/buffering the piezo a bit. After I tame it some I will do some sound clips.
Click to expand...
Try a preamp for impedance buffering.
A Fishman BII or the like. (K&K, etc.)
 
#36
Man - what a week... I now know exactly that I don't know JACK about electronics...

[EDIT] I re-did my search and found a lot more info about making my own piezo pickups.

I had my piezo in a cavity I cut into my bridge with a forstner bit but it was just shallow enough to accommodate the piezo + some very thin foam-rubber padding (1/16" thick) which I put on botht the contact side and underneath.

I did this thinking that I didn't want to crush the piezo but it's still getting sandwiched with a lot of pressure under the bridge.

QUESTION: Should I be trying to keep all pressure off the piezo? I have much more room to provide a space where the piezo can live without getting squished.
 
#38
scojack said:
Agree with Francois here, the brightness could be an impedance problem which a preamp would fix.
I think the piezo can handle being squished
IanM
Click to expand...

It's good to know the element can handle the pressure. It's definitely picking up sound - and I am hoping that it's an adequate mechanism for the job.

I agree with you and Francois and took his advice to heart and ordered a Fishman BII on Tuesday. I can't wait to see how it works out.

Thanks in advance for the suggestion, Francios, by the way!

Question; Is a piezo a piezo a piezo or are there 'better' ones than the ones standard electronics stores provide? The ones I've got seem to be very sensitive and definitely transmit a lot of sound. I am sure placement is key and I know I can get strips as well as the discs, but are there different 'grades' of thin piezo elements - like wood?

I rewired the piezo with shielded audio cable and put it in a sandwich of thin foam rubber last night to see if any of that made any noticeable difference.

Not one little bit...

Still brighter than hell, thin sounding and I had to push the gain on my amp way too high to get any sort of worthwhile sound. All the fiddling with frequencies on the amp were futile - even with the 2k and 5k all the way cut - it was still just not acceptable.

I can't wait to see what kind of difference the Fishman makes! My fingers are crossed! We're having a jam session on the 29th and I want to be playing my ZEUB, damn it!
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back