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Double Bass First EUB build - ZEUBI

#41
tZer said:
Still brighter than hell, thin sounding and I had to push the gain on my amp way too high to get any sort of worthwhile sound. All the fiddling with frequencies on the amp were futile - even with the 2k and 5k all the way cut - it was still just not acceptable.
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It seems to me that there was a thread a few years ago where someone built his own preamp for piezo.

IIRC - so I may have some of this close but wrong - he had found out that a piezo's output has equal energy per octave, similar to white noise, which make them naturally screechy. It was necessary to put in a full-spectrum either -3 dB/octave or -6 dB/octave filter to make it equal amplitude per octave, similar to pink noise.

Hopefully you can find the thread, or or the info on the web. But my recollection is that any pre for piezo use has this filtering built in.
 
#42
pilotjones said:
Hopefully you can find the thread, or or the info on the web. But my recollection is that any pre for piezo use has this filtering built in.
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Maybe it was a special piezo, but no, typical preamps don't have a special shaping circuit. Some feature a hi-pass filter to filter out infra-sonics, plus the usual bass and treble (or more) tone controls.
Maybe you're confusing with the RIAA curve for vinyl recording.
(or also DOLBY)
 
#43
Francois Blais said:
Try a preamp for impedance buffering.
A Fishman BII or the like. (K&K, etc.)
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Summary: The FISHMAN BII makes all the difference in the world! The instrument sounds great! (Clips coming soon).

Next steps:
1) File down the nut slots a but more. 1/2 and 1st position string stopping is still stiff.
2) "Finalize" my pup to output situation. Currently there's just a hole straight through from under the bridge to the back with the signal cable dangling and leads exposed.

QUESTION: I read somewhere here in another piezo on EUB thread that shielding the output system in copper was beneficial. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I have adhesive-backed copper foil to use if it makes a real difference.


The Longer Version:

My Fishman BII arrived yesterday and it made all the difference in the world, I am happy to say! Plugged it in, fired up the amp with all EQ settings at 12 o'clock and it sounded great!

I will try to put together some sound clips this weekend. I admit I am hesitant not because the instrument doesn't sound good, but because I am so weak playing upright! My poor forearms feel like Popeye's after 5 minutes.

I had the Fishman's EQ'd flat and with a little bump of the bass, it sounded really full. I also returned it to flat and bumped the 62Hz to 3 o'clock and got a similarly positive effect. Clearly the preamp is critical to providing a worthwhile signal. The piezo alone has nowhere near the oomph.

There's a little hum but I am sure that's because I am just alligator-clipping the leads from the piezo to the output jack and will be negated when I get it all properly sealed and grounded.

Thanks again for encouraging me to get the pre-amp! I was spinning my newbie-electrician's wheels trying to wire up my own without knowing what the hell I was doing. Note to self: Get some electronics instruction.


More to come...
 
#46
Sound clips would be in this spot if my F'in G string didn't snap last night.

I knew all the tuning up, down, strings off, back on stuff would play hell with them and I was trying to minimize it - but I was working on the nut slots last night, de-tuned, filed, re-tuned - snap!

I was able to acquire a single G from a local violin shop this morning - so I will be back on track soon. I am thinking about running the peg-end of the higher strings through a protective sleeve to minimize contact with the tuner pegs which obviously have some sharp angles (Gotoh Compact) - I now know WHY you spend the extra bucks for REAL upright tuners.
 
#47
Quick update:

> All strings are intact now
> Fishman BII is in-hand and has made all the difference in the world

> Piezo is wrapped in copper, connected via shielded audio cable to a shielded 1/4" output jack

> Nut and bridge slots filed - action and playability is significantly improved!

> E and B string side of fingerboard has been scrapped significantly to alleviate the annoying string buzz. My fingerboard now has a sort of a Romberg Bevel. Not totally flat under the E and B string, but there is a noticeable change in the radius.

> Sound clips coming. I started to record some the other night but was getting horrible electrical hum on my laptop due to my poorly wired garage/work shop. Also - with the E and B string side of the fb still needed so much attention, I wanted to get that done before I embarrass myself with recordings.

QUESTION: I feel like I need a belly bar/chest rest. When I get up into thumb position territory I find myself putting my shoulder behind the neck to stabilize things and that's very uncomfortable and certainly promotes bad technique.

I've seen a number of belly bar treatments from bent wire (which looks very uncomfortable) to simulated AUB sides. Does anyone have any opinions or suggestions about belly bars/chest rests? Design tips? Things to watch out for?



The Long Form:

The A, D and G strings sound great! No buzz, great action, I am very pleased. The E and B strings were getting a LOT of fingerboard buzz when stopping notes in 1/2, 1st and 2nd positions so I figured the fingerboard could use some attention and decided to break out my scraper and go to work on that side of the fingerboard.

I strapped the bass down to my work surface, de-tuned and move the strings to the side and began taking the fb down in paper-thin strokes. After a dozen or so passes, I'd tune it up and check the buzz - HUGE difference right away. I did that a few more times and the B and E string behave much better now.

I plucked around a little this morning before work and there is still a bit of rattle to deal with so I think I am going to make a few more passes when I get home - but otherwise, a little gentler touch on the lower strings diminishes the rattle - so a little more scraping and a little more practice and I think the fb will be ready for prime time.
 
#48
tZer said:
QUESTION: I feel like I need a belly bar/chest rest. When I get up into thumb position territory I find myself putting my shoulder behind the neck to stabilize things and that's very uncomfortable and certainly promotes bad technique.

I've seen a number of belly bar treatments from bent wire (which looks very uncomfortable) to simulated AUB sides. Does anyone have any opinions or suggestions about belly bars/chest rests? Design tips? Things to watch out for?
Click to expand...
You can buy an Eminence belly rest from Bob G. ;)
 
#52
Last night I had more time to work so I started off by turning on the radio and playing along with whatever came on for about 40 minutes.

The first thing that jumped out was that I needed to round the back of the neck much more. It was somewhat squared off making the very back of the neck where my thumb travels pretty flat and that shape proved to be very uncomfortable. So I went to work on the back of the neck with the cheese-grater and removed quite a lot of material making it much more round. A huge improvement.

I also scraped the Romberg-ish bevel some more. There was still some annoying string buzz between the 4th and 7th stops on the E and B. Gone now. I can now play it much more freely without having to 'baby' notes in that zone - although those strings do tend to still growl quite a bit, it's not accompanied by the obnoxious fb rattle - it's just the NS EUB strings and their incredible brightness (too bright, IMO).

Man, it's sort of mind-blowing how many significant improvements I've seen in this thing in the last few days. Makes me wonder how many more huge improvements are still in there waiting to be uncovered.

On strings
I purchased a set ofInvalid Link Removed strings because of the lower price point and because I had a gift card to a local shop that would order them for me.

The process of building an EUB imposes a LOT of stress on the strings with the need to de-tune and re-tune them, remove them, put them back on - and the NS Strings do not handle that kind of activity very well at all. I lost my G string already and I am concerned about the D and the A - so after last night's session, NO MORE. They are on, tuned to pitch - and that's where they are going to stay until I am ready to finish this build.

I acquired a used Spirocore G string from a local violin shop (Bearden). The difference in quality and sound is remarkable - like night and day. I am going to save my pennies and replace the rest of the strings with Spirocores - or something comparable.
 
#53
Phase I: Make EUB that's playable in time for Oct. 29th SoulCoustic Halloween, B-Days, BBQ/Jam Session is on time and on budget.

Full-frontal

IMG_3024.jpg



"Has anyone seen the bridge?"

IMG_3025.jpg



"Where's that confounded bridge?"

IMG_3026.jpg



"Look up to the sky and see..."

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The peghead featuring my soon to be pattented 'protect your delicate string tapers from the ridges of the tuning machine slots with audio wire shielding' - I'm still working on a name...

IMG_3030.jpg



The nut:

IMG_3031.jpg



The belly rest - bent metal from a filing cabinet organizer rack that my wife was going to throw out:

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belly rest, dorsal view:

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A blurry shot of the velvet bridge mute:

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Sound Clips! - Please excuse the playing...

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]



This morning's beverage: Kaldi's Fair-Trade Organic French Roast - French Pressed.

IMG_3046.jpg


Yeah... That's some good coffee!

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I am thrilled to have this thing ready for our jam session tomorrow night! Our jam sessions are the most mostly legal fun musicians can have - period... Great players... Great food... Great friends... Great jamming... I am so ready!!

Note - It's still unfinished. There is an entire phase II to come after I play the hell out of this thing and decide what final major surgery has to be performed before I wrap it in a finish. Not sure what's to come - but at this point it's in GREAT shape - it's a lot of fun to play - it sounds pretty good and I really couldn't ask for more!!
 
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#54
Brought it to the jam Saturday and it performed really well for it's first time in a full band situation. With the bridge mute on it got a very nice, upright-ish sound. Not authentic but not totally electric-fretless either. With the bridge mute off it has upright qualities with a distinctively fretless sound that EUB's seem to all have and sustain for days.

tz_zeubi.jpg


It's impressive how much 'mwah' and 'bloom' you can coax out of it. All in all it adds a very unique and distinctive flavor to our jamming and the rest of the band dug the hell out of it! I was like a proud daddy toting my Z-Bass I and ZEUBI - two, totally hand-made and very killer sounding instruments into this session!

The E and B strings were pretty anemic sounding - B much more so than E so I was still in OK shape with regard to playing in standard bass range. But trying to dig down into the extended range was pretty useless - so I stayed in the normal zone and things were groovy.

I added a second piezo over the weekend placing one under the G-D side of the bridge and the other under the E-B side and that seems to have evened things out nicely.

I began fabricating an adjustable bridge. Should have that finished by the weekend and I'll then have the ability to adjust between pizz and arco string heights using an allen wrench.

I'll be taking a shot at making a bow soon. Bow-build thread to come.

--tz
 
#55
Flippin' far out tZer! :hyper::D:hyper:

You have succeeded at all your goals... man, that sound is awsome...I'd say (now I have to admit, in regards to double bassers. Eddie Gomez is my fave) that I would actually prefer your bass's sound over 99% of the DB's I've ever played and heard. Truly a great tone as recorded. I hope mine comes out as nice as that!

I'm sitting here with a pile of wood, an ebony fretboard, and a rented upright (to measure for some stuff) and I had been putting my proj off, now I'm gonna kick it into high gear... you're quite an inspiration...the proof is in the tone! :bassist:

Congrats!!!
 
#57
tZer said:
This morning's beverage: Kaldi's Fair-Trade Organic French Roast - French Pressed.

IMG_3046.jpg


Yeah... That's some good coffee!
Click to expand...

Props on your choice of coffee! As a fellow bassist from St. Louis I can fully back your choice of the Free Trade Organic French Roast ... my wife and I go through three pounds in about as many weeks :).

Who do you play with? I would love to come see this thing in person.

Aaron
 
#58
agfrag said:
Flippin' far out tZer! :hyper::D:hyper:

You have succeeded at all your goals... man, that sound is awsome...I'd say (now I have to admit, in regards to double bassers. Eddie Gomez is my fave) that I would actually prefer your bass's sound over 99% of the DB's I've ever played and heard. Truly a great tone as recorded. I hope mine comes out as nice as that!

I'm sitting here with a pile of wood, an ebony fretboard, and a rented upright (to measure for some stuff) and I had been putting my proj off, now I'm gonna kick it into high gear... you're quite an inspiration...the proof is in the tone! :bassist:

Congrats!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot, man! I am really pleased with the results. I am pretty happy with the sound too. You can really control how it sounds with both hands. It's very responsive and you can pull out a lot of fretless 'mwah' by plucking up on the fingerboard and holding a note as well as a more traditional upright thump and roundness by plucking closer to the bridge, using the mute and releasing the notes quickly. The sustain is unreal. I feel like I could hold a note forever if I wanted to.

While I like it as it is, I'd really like some forward facing surfaces to put some nice looking wood onto and polish to add a more 'fine instrument' aesthetic.

You definitely need to go ahead and start making some sawdust! I think you'll be surprised how accessible making one of these really is.

scojack said:
Cracking build tZ !!!
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Thanks, man! And I agree - agfrag needs to get building!

lopxtc said:
Props on your choice of coffee! As a fellow bassist from St. Louis I can fully back your choice of the Free Trade Organic French Roast ... my wife and I go through three pounds in about as many weeks .

Who do you play with? I would love to come see this thing in person.
Click to expand...

Yeah - I love Kaldi's! My old, old band (Bella Wolf) used to rehearse in the warehouse where they stored AND roasted the beans! Whoa... talk about rehearsing in a great smelling space! We also used their shop on Demun for a lot of photo shoots - as well as sip on their fantastic brews!

Currently I play in a 'project' called SoulCoustic with a bunch of friends. It's a jam thing and we really don't play out much at all. I'll post and let you know if we do decide to play out - but for the foreseeable future, it's just basement jam fun. We do record those jams. When we get the last session cut up and ready I see if there are any clips worth sharing.
 

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