• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

First Gig (and last, with that band) Debacle

#21
plangentmusic said:
Bad things happen when you gig. You learn to anticipate most, circumvent some and to flat out deal with others. It's called professionalism.
Click to expand...

Right you are! And that's why, while my playing was certainly amateur and I made some mistakes, my equipment worked flawlessly during my entire performance. The audience could hear me just fine the whole time. And my mistakes were lack of skill (and largely not anything anybody in the audience noticed), not a case of not knowing what I was supposed to be playing at any given moment.

The conclusion of my post was, essentially, that I learned that in anticipation of future problems I have concluded that the only way to circumvent them, in this case, is to quit this band find a different guitar player/singer to play with.
 
#22
Two things I don't understand:

1. How the hell could you not hear a mic'd Marshall? My guitarist uses one of the worst Marshall amps (the MG series) and you can't turn that thing past 11 o'clock if you still want ear drums. If it was anything in the JCM line of amps, there would be no need to mic an amp like that in a room for 100 people. I've played modern country gigs in cruise ship hangars in front of 2,000 people where the only thing running thru the PA were vocals, keys, and a harmonica; and our guitarists were using the Marshall MG amps and the lead player was using a Fender twin. I could understand if you couldn't hear it due to bad monitor mix, but FOH should've had an earful if he was cranked.

2. Why did you buy presale tickets? Thats sign #1 that the venue is trying to rip you off, especially if they're charging at the door AND selling drinks. Before you gig anywhere you need to have a fixed price or percentage agreed upon before you walk in the door.

I think every one of us has made a big mistake live, whether it's coming in on the wrong entrance, play in the wrong key, having a string go horribly out of tune, etc. I've done it before; I forgot I had one of my basses tuned down a half step and kicked into an intro of a song in the wrong key (luckily the guitar player made it look like it was supposed to happen). If you did like the guitar player's attitude, it might be worth your while to approach him about it and let him know what you feel.

Chances are, if your blues gigs are anything like mine have been, all the people in the audience went crazy and thought you were amazing (thank you PBR) for doing the 4,356th rendition of "Roadhouse Blues" better than the last bar band they heard. Don't take it so seriously, bar gigs are supposed to be fun. It sounds to me like you're not looking to make music anything more than a professional hobby, so try not to over do it by recording and promoting, etc.

Before you burn any bridges, talk it over with the other band members and work out the kinks in practice. If you're really that OCD about sound, bring your own mixer board and power strips and etc.
 
#23
Hey powellmacaque,

1) I have NO idea! I don't know what the amp head was. He said it was a Marshall, but I never examined it closely. I asked the guitard if it was turned up all the way and he said it was. And it was MANY people in the audience who told me that you could not hear it at all when the PA was out and barely hear it when the PA was "working".

I agree that it borders on unbelievable. I was worried about it when he was intially talking about using his 50W solid state Fender amp for the gig. But when he told me he decided to use his Marshall (head + 4x12 cab) and I saw him rolling it in, it NEVER occurred to me that it wouldn't be able to turn up loud enough, so I didn't pay it any more attention.

2) I KNOW that the deal with the venue stunk. But, the guitard is the one that assembled the band and he did the deal for the gig when we had just formed, so it was kind of like "agree to play this gig or I'll find another bass player." The band is doing all original music, and I liked the songs. So I took a positive attitude, agreed to play the gig and said, "let's make sure we don't have to do this again by selling all the tickets they give us." I setup online ticket sales through BrownPaperTickets.com and sold 17 that way. We had pre-printed tickets to sell. I sold 41 pre-printed tickets, just by myself. We sold 108 tickets (more than the venue capacity) total. Before we even finished loading out, the venue was already talking about having us back and doing the deal differently next time. As I expected.

I know what you mean about flubs during gig and the audience still thinking you were great. That wasn't the case here. I had 4 family members there, plus 8 friends of theirs that they brought, that all left halfway through our set because the sound was THAT bad. My own FAMILY!

And like I said earlier, if the guitard recognized how bad it was, I would believe him if he then said things would be better next time. But when he's going around saying that "it went great" and posting (really BAD quality) recordings of it for sale on the Internet, I know that he just doesn't get it and, therefore, there's NO reason to think it will ever be better. And, therefore, no reason to invest more time with him.

The keys player has tons of original music we can work with. She has 4 CDs out under her own name and had a single hit #11 on the Country charts. Then she got burnt out and "retired" for 10 years. Now she wants to get into it and start writing and performing again. And she still has her old producer and his studio to work with and help us get a leg up. I don't think we'll suffer much for having to find a new guitar player.
 
#25
puddin tame said:
you could have got the same message across without nearly as much text


edit: oh man and it's still coming!
Click to expand...
Who cares? Then don't read it.
shrug.gif


@stuart, I'm glad none of your gear was fried because of the unstable power source in the bar.
 
#26
"...el duderino, if you're not into the whole brevity thing..." :D
(The Dude has a relevant quote for this situation, as with all life situations)

Quite a story. Obviously the guitarist is kind of clueless right now, but is it really true that he won't EVER learn? There were some serious problems there ( the building power supply being the main one evidently ). However, it seems like you may be judging him and his newbie gusto kinda harshly. But you would know better than I.
 
#27
I completely understand that you're disappointed in what happened. And yes, I think the guitar player is to blame for most of the logistics issues. The dodgy power is obviously not his fault, but that he thinks little of it tells me you have very different expectations of a good gig, and that doesn't bode well.

The main issue is that he was convinced (or wanted you to believe) he had everything under control and didn't really allow you to help him out before the gig. And then it didn't work out smoothly. That sounds like a recipe for a series of equally well planned gigs in the future.

And about the Marshall: That's some really wierd stuff. If you're a guitar player and got a Marshall top with a 4x12, you are looking for loud. And chances are you've tested that aspect...
 
#28
Stu, I feel for ya brutha. You obviously take a great deal of pride in what you do. There is just nothing worse than being at the mercy of a sub par soundman, or the unfortunate victim of technical difficulties. It is really hard to focus on the music or your performance under these circumstances. But even worse is the letdown that occurs when one has high hopes for a new project....and then....disaster strikes. I would react in a similar fashion if I had invited 40 + paying friends/family and been humiliated in the same fashion.
 
#29
I can't get passed the fact you actually had a soundguy, and sound check at a venue with 97 people. That's insane. One of our local gigs has a little PA setup but never a sound man. We do what most do and just run vocals through it.

I do find your choice of gear a bit excessive but hey if you got it flaut it right?. For a room that small I would've used a small combo or something. But man that mashall. geeze. I guess I mustve had to be there to believe it. Actually I kinda wish I was there now.
 
#30
I am all for having a soundcheck, I am a soundguy as well. Part of my contribution is to do my best to make sure the band sounds as good as I can help it. I love to listen to music as well as play, and a bad mix drives me bonkers.

I generally agree that the circumstances of this gig was actually not that bad, the guitard did make some mistakes, probably due to inexperience.

I would suggest you look at your motives for walking away and not be sold on the opinion of a singer with recording connections. You have moved from a formal musical setting (trombone) to the more informal setting of bass, so you need to expect that things will go wrong. I spent time as a roadie for a very professional Australian group, and even with all the bases covered the fan very often got fertiliser to spread.

Keep gigging, and have fun.
 
#32
Whoa, I know that place! I believe it's "down below" a fried seafood place!

We played there in Feb. Seriously, it was the worst set up we've played at. No stage, just an area for the band to set up. They had to borrow a mic AND a mic chord. The first "band" consisted of 3 'rappers' singing back up to a CD. No lie. Oh, and they were an hour late, so the show didn't start on time. Our set got cut to 25 min. I don't even remember being paid much for it. It was our first out of town gig, and luckily not our last, though based on that experience, it may have been. With gas, hotel, and food, we lost about 500 bucks!

Oh, and there was almost a fight in the parking lot after.


But hey, at least we got to see these two chicks making out! They fell on the floor and kept going at it, too. So yeah... it was alllll worth it!

Link Removed


Morale of the story? Don't sweat a crappy show in the basement of Barnacl .. i mean the Krusty Krab!
 
#34
Thank you to all youse guys with supportive comments!

Pharmakon, yep, I know you know the place. And I knew that it used to be a crappy place to play. But, the guitard told us they had new management for the bar and that they were trying to turn it into a real music venue and had bought a bunch of new PA equipment. Needless to say, I don't think much of their effort so far.

DaLoCo, I hear you man. All I can say is that, though I went into (apparently) excruciating detail, I didn't include the HALF of all the guitard's "smooth moves" leading up to the gig. He does things that are SO stupid, SO often, the keys player actually quit the band 6 weeks ago, and I talked her back in, to give it another chance. And then I quit the band a month ago and the keys player talked me back in. Friday's fiasco was really just the last straw in pushing both of us to finally walk away together.
 
#35
baron665 said:
Was the Guitarists' head one of these LOL
http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-MG15FXMS-Micro-Stack?sku=582933l
Click to expand...

LOL! No, it wasn't that.

I suppose I'll probably never know now, but I suspect that the real problem is that the guitard thought his rig was turned up all the way when it really wasn't. He probably had the Master dimed, but was plugged into the Active jack (or had the Active pad turned on, or whatever his amp has), and had the gain turned way, way down. If that was it, it's still just another example of why I cannot handle being in a band with him any more.
 
#36
Had a similar gig this weekend. Small place we have played a couple of times before. We were a 6 piece but our lead guitard recently quit to start his own thing. So that leaves us with the rhythm guitard that wasnt used to handling all the guitar duties himself. We were doing a lot of gigging all spring and summer but had about a month off before this gig and it was a trainwreck.

Oh and we usually run everything through a PA even on small gigs too, just to control the volume and independent levels. That way we can keep the stage volume alot lower but still get a good mix. We didnt run everything at this past gig, but most times we do. Quite frankly Im glad we use the PA because if I had to rely on the gui-key-tards to turn down, it would be a terrible mix.
 
#37
Sounds mainly like the bar/soundman was at fault...well and the guitard, for not noticing stuff.

I'd chalk that up to "lesson learned", and maybe give it another shot.(different bar)
Unless the other guys actually suck that bad.


And I agree tho, I always mic drums(and everything) if we can..not nececarily for more volume, but just to spread the sound out, so you hear everything from either side of the room.(with amps on stage at lower volume..let the sound guy control the sound...after all, he's hearin what the audience is hearing. But before I get attacked, I'm talkin bout a good sound guy ;) )
Not just vocals and bass when ur on one side...and then only guitar when you're in front of his cab.
 
#38
Stu- I also appreciated the detail of your narrative.

I think the fact that the snarkers refer to what you wrote as "text" speaks volumes about their mentality.

Good luck on future gigs- looks like you are heading in the right direction now.

(Write and tell us about it too!) Vik
 
#39
StuartV said:
And like I said earlier, if the guitard recognized how bad it was, I would believe him if he then said things would be better next time. But when he's going around saying that "it went great" and posting (really BAD quality) recordings of it for sale on the Internet, I know that he just doesn't get it and, therefore, there's NO reason to think it will ever be better. And, therefore, no reason to invest more time with him.
Click to expand...


Okay...forget my last comment...I'd leave too...

Theres nothing worse than being sucky...and the other guys can't hear what sucks...when its plain as day.(and posted on the internet)

.
 
#40
Thanks, Vik and Bassdirty. I appreciate knowing that not everybody on here thinks I'm nothing but a self-inflated windbag. :)

On another positive note, the keys player's dad has been a working musician pretty much his whole life. He came to one of our rehearsals a couple of weeks ago. She forwarded me part of an email from him this morning. He said:

"Stuart, I do believe could take a oatmeal box and spread cat gut across the hole and lay a solid bass with it. I got that impression watching him."

I think he's way over the top on that, but it still was a really nice boost after such a crappy intro to gigging on bass. :)

Onward and upward!!
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back