First project: Folk Bass DIY upright

[Bruce Johnson]

This idea has been stuck in my head since you posted it. I was at Princess Auto yesterday and picked up a single 8" dia. pneumatic swivel wheel "caster" for $20. If I can find a way to easily mount and dismount the wheel for transport I'm going to do that!

Also I'll try to get some video clips while I'm at the festival next month, new neck ready or not.

I showed this before, but this is the cart I made for Banjozilla:

Note that it's made like a hand truck: two large wheels at the back, and a foot at the front. Banjozilla sits in there with the peg down in a socket in the front foot, leaning back, into a padded cradle right where the neck joins the rim. The back of the cart is a flat surface, offset back behind the plane of the headstock. This makes it real easy to load in and out of a van or pickup. Back it up against the tailgate, tip it back onto its back, slide it in. Strap it down for safety. And Banjozilla is comfortably secure for the ride.

I've loaded him in and out of trucks at least a hundred times over the years. And this cart is also the permanent free-standing stand for him in my music room. It was well worth the investment in time to build.

And, yes, the secret to going off road in fields and parks is big wheels. I originally had 10" hand truck style wheels on the cart. I later modified it for these pneumatic 16" bicycle wheels.

 

[NKBassman]

Re: Pinning the fingerboard in place while gluing it on.

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it, but a classic way to keep fingerboards in place while gluing is...staples! Use your handy staple gun to fire a staple into the neck wood somewhere up near the nut. Another one down near the heel. Not flush, just partway in. Then clip off the staples, removing the hoop, leaving the sharp little legs there, sticking up maybe 1/16". Slap on your glue, and position the fingerboard on there. It'll be sitting up on the points. Line it up real carefully, check it twice, and squeeze the fingerboard down. The points of the staple legs will embed in the fingerboard, pinning it in position. Then take your time putting on a row of clamps or wrapping it with the inner tube.

This is a classic technique when you are putting a fingerboard on that is already trimmed to exact size. Such as replacing a fingerboard when repairing an old neck. But it works fine on new builds too, if there's some reason that you want to trim the fingerboard to the final width before gluing.

What a wonderful idea!

 

[NKBassman]

I've been completely out of commission for time this week with appointments and other things to do (two gigs, CFL football game with my dad for his 70th birthday, golf tournament, and an appt with my massage therapist) every evening from Tuesday through Saturday.

Writing out this rough task list to completion, it doesn't look like I'm going to finish before July 5... new goal will be to have the replacement neck finished by the SBO 2023 deadline I guess.

• Trim neck taper and glue on fingerboard.
• Trim fingerboard to neck taper.
• Shape neck profile.
• Shape headstock and volute.
• Determine mounting position on existing mounting block and install new threaded anchors.
• Mount tuners.
• Mount nut and reshape as required to suit 7.5" fingerboard radius.
• Mount pre-made scrolls and tie in to headstock.
• Finish sanding and stain.
• 3 coats of oil.

I think I need to switch gears here and start putting the thing back together with the original neck for this year's festival. I'll hold off staining the mounting beam until the new neck is complete, but I'm going to try angling it back a little bit when I remount it to get some more slope on the neck (per @Kickass 's suggestion back at the beginning of the thread). I'll need to make a new bridge, and maybe reconsider a new tailpiece arrangement. Then work on the transportation system. That'll be plenty to keep me busy over the next two weeks.

 

[JIO]

With this method do you taper the fretboard before gluing it to the neck?

I've used it to address/replace the tr on a existing finished neck.

 

[JIO]

Re: Pinning the fingerboard in place while gluing it on.

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned it, but a classic way to keep fingerboards in place while gluing is...staples! Use your handy staple gun to fire a staple into the neck wood somewhere up near the nut. Another one down near the heel. Not flush, just partway in. Then clip off the staples, removing the hoop, leaving the sharp little legs there, sticking up maybe 1/16". Slap on your glue, and position the fingerboard on there. It'll be sitting up on the points. Line it up real carefully, check it twice, and squeeze the fingerboard down. The points of the staple legs will embed in the fingerboard, pinning it in position. Then take your time putting on a row of clamps or wrapping it with the inner tube.

This is a classic technique when you are putting a fingerboard on that is already trimmed to exact size. Such as replacing a fingerboard when repairing an old neck. But it works fine on new builds too, if there's some reason that you want to trim the fingerboard to the final width before gluing.

That's so simple and effective -

 

[NKBassman]

While I’m working on putting the Thing back together with the original neck for the local folk festival next weekend, I did some headstock shaping on the new neck while some glue dries.

Picked up a cheap Shinto rasp off Amazon. So THATS what all the fuss is about.

And added some bling:

 

[Freekmagnet]

Shinto rasps work fine. For the price, I they’re a really good tool!

Looking good!

 

[NKBassman]

It’s alive! And in tune, no less!
The truss rod needs a bit of tweaking and the E string is a bit rattley, but it’ll do for next weekend.

I made up a quick bridge and shimmed it for a play test this evening to stop the E from fretting out. I’ll try tightening the truss rod a little more if a get a chance, but a shim under the bridge on the E side is enough to clean it up for now.

the tail piece is also a little high but I don’t really want to redo the whole mounting block again so I think I’ll just roll like this for the weekend.

any tips on ways to tighten up the feel/response of the E string?

 

[Flamingo21]

any tips on ways to tighten up the feel/response of the E string?

The obvious response is: try different strings. What's on it now?

 

[NKBassman]

The obvious response is: try different strings. What's on it now?

I’m trying some GHS black nylon tapes this time around.

I also took a closer look at a short video I did last night and I tend to play it close to the end of the neck. I’ll have to see about plucking closer to the bridge. Might need a longer end pin to make that a bit easier.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

any tips on ways to tighten up the feel/response of the E string?

With what you have there and for this weekend, I'd say try cranking the tailpiece back more on the E side, to the limit of keeping the fat part of the E in the nut - which probably means there isn't much adjustment there, looking at it, but there might be a bit.

On my upright (where that's possible - not here) I changed to E goes the longest at the headstock (the D tuner, normally, on an upright 2x2) and G goes the shortest (the E tuner) and I think there's a difference, but how much is in my head (since the speaking length does not change) is subject to debate, which I won't suggest we derail into. This thread gets into that end, Strings to different pegs then there's a bunch of compensated tailpiece stuff to diverge into, which is essentially what I'm suggesting to the extent that you can, with EBG strings. I've not changed up my tailpiece since that's a chore (or a pile of money) there.

 

[NKBassman]

With what you have there and for this weekend, I'd say try cranking the tailpiece back more on the E side, to the limit of keeping the fat part of the E in the nut - which probably means there isn't much adjustment there, looking at it, but there might be a bit.

On my upright (where that's possible - not here) I changed to E goes the longest at the headstock (the D tuner, normally, on an upright 2x2) and G goes the shortest (the E tuner) and I think there's a difference, but how much is in my head (since the speaking length does not change) is subject to debate, which I won't suggest we derail into. I've not changed up the tailpiece since that's a chore (or a pile of money) there.

Thanks for the suggestion! From what I read around here I think maybe I had it backwards in my head, that a shorter length behind the bridge would result in a firmer feel. I’ll try lengthening it today. Regardless of if it makes an improvement or not, everything is fine and ready for the weekend!

Since the new neck is going to be fretless, I have the freedom to increase the scale length a little bit, which I might consider to firm up the string feel a little.

I do like the sound of these tapes, though. The D and G string in particular feel perfect and sound great. But maybe a stiffer string would be better on the E. If I have time maybe I’ll try changing the E back to the GHS Precision Flat E string I had on there previously and see how feels/sounds.

 

[T_Bone_TL]

I'm a huge fan of tapes, for my electric. I might have gone there on the upright but my band seems to like when I bow, and everything I read is that bowing tapes is essentially impossible, so that's not happening. Particularly given the expense of any set of upright strings...

 

[NKBassman]

Note to self: Clean up your work area before taking any more pictures.

 

[Hasty]

Note to self: Clean up your work area before taking any more pictures.

If I lived by that rule I’d never be able to take another picture again…

 

[Flamingo21]

Note to self: Clean up your work area before taking any more pictures.

Looking at that pic, I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Note to self: Clean up your work area before taking any more pictures.

If your work area was all nice and clean, we would be suspicious. You cannot build a Bass Banjo in a spotless laboratory. That would violate the rules of science.

 

[NKBassman]

I made a few adjustments to the tail piece but didn't take any new pictures. I'm reposting these pics (from above) again for reference.

• I realized I could remount the door hinge lower on the block and still have enough room to re-drill a new hole for the end pin insert without overlapping the existing hole (there's a threaded insert behind the door hinge to accept the 3/8 threaded rod end pin). The threaded rods for the tail piece are now pressed right up against the rim of the drum... I probably lowered the whole thing by about an inch from the looks of it. This increased the break angle over the bridge and also stiffened up the attachment point. ie. the hinge is now being pulled against the wood block instead of being free to rotate. I guess don't know if this is a positive or negative .
  
• I flipped the short piece of aluminum angle tail stop upside-down to lower the ball end of the strings relative to the bridge just a little bit more. It's a little less aesthetic this way, but who cares? I'll take function over form in this case.
• Adjusted the position of the tail piece to maximize the length behind the bridge, as suggested by @T_Bone_TL above.

I also think that the radius I put on the bridge doesn't give me enough curvature across the strings for the plucking hand. I just eye-balled the arc without any measurements and hacked it out with the RO sander, so that in and of itself is not surprising. I won't have time to fix it before I leave for the festival, but I do think getting a proper radius at the bridge will make a big difference in playability when I finish the new neck. I actually have half a mind to order myself a cello or 3/4 scale double bass bridge with adjustable thumb wheels for the final version... now that I'm not rushing to finish anymore, I might just do that. I see some for about $50 on Amazon...

I still need to tweak the truss rod, but I'm happy with it for this weekend. It actually sounds pretty good with the nylon tape strings!

 

[NKBassman]

Truss rod on the old neck might be buggered. Good thing I'm building a new one.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I also think that the radius I put on the bridge doesn't give me enough curvature across the strings for the plucking hand. I just eye-balled the arc without any measurements and hacked it out with the RO sander, so that in and of itself is not surprising. I won't have time to fix it before I leave for the festival, but I do think getting a proper radius at the bridge will make a big difference in playability when I finish the new neck.

For reference, when I first built Banjozilla, it was fretted (6-string) and I cut the fingerboard to 7 1/4" radius. And yes, I found that I really wanted a smaller radius to make the plucking easier. When I converted it to 4-string fretless, I used a trimmed-down upright bass fingerboard. They are 3 1/2" radius at the heel, tapering to 2 1/2" radius at the nut. And of course, I made a new bridge to match.

That was a big improvement, allowing me to pluck harder. Louder, more bouncy sound. More banjo like.