No, they are not.
Spirocores have a twisted aircraft cable core, but Jazz Flats have a solid steel wire core.
Do you think Thomastik Präzision (old steel wire core) and Spirocore are „basically“ the same?
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Double Bass First spirocore, Weich or Mittel?
- Thread starter passionbass
- Start date
Spirocores have a twisted aircraft cable core, but Jazz Flats have a solid steel wire core.
Do you think Thomastik Präzision (old steel wire core) and Spirocore are „basically“ the same?
BTW, the old problem and a response to @Monabass:
3/4 and 4/4 Spirocores (and Superflexibles) are not only different in length, but also in mass per length unit.
That means, even though the tension looks the same, it is not the same if compared on the same vibrating string length. Simply think of stopping a 110 cm scale string at 104 cm and you get a pitch that is at least a halftone higher. So to get the same note stopped as the open string you need to reduce the tension of the string (tune down).
Since a lot of string dealers in the USA don‘t want to stock 3/4 and 4/4 Spirocores they mostly carry the 4/4 version only. But they are closer tensionwise to the 3/4 Weich than the 3/4 Mittel Spirocores.
It can generate is a lot of confusion not to explicitly mention which version one is referring to. Specially because in Europe the 3/4 version is the standard.
The biggest confusion arises if talking about mixed sets with Spirocores and not mentioning if it is a 4/4 or 3/4 string. it is not much different if you omit Stark, Mittel, Weich and (downtuned) Solos and simply say Spiros only.
So Spiro Mittel 4/4 might be the mostly used Spirocore in the USA for 3/4 string scale basses (105 cm), but this string is a lot harder to play on my 110 cm string scale bass. Nice to play if tuned down by a halftone like the tension on a 3/4 string scale bass.
Other manufacturers (with very few exceptions) do not differentiate between 3/4 and 4/4 strings, but have different construction for 5/4 or 1/2 or smaller fractional strings, so this is hardly the topic here.
So once again I want everyone to be explicit about Spirocore and Superflexible strings, string scale and „weight“.
And I also want everybody who sees that someone was not explicit about these strings to ask for the missing information.
Some do this by mentioning the order number: Sxy for 4/4, 388x(,y) for 3/4.
x,y are digits.
If the strings are on the instrument and the string scale type is not known, they can be identified by length only (if they are not cut). The lengths vary a bit, but I have typical lengths in a file in my Dropbox to compare.
So in the USA the Spirocores are often used against their intended use. So other „Mittel“ strings typically have a higher tension than Spiro 4/4 Mittel on the same instrument.
3/4 and 4/4 Spirocores (and Superflexibles) are not only different in length, but also in mass per length unit.
That means, even though the tension looks the same, it is not the same if compared on the same vibrating string length. Simply think of stopping a 110 cm scale string at 104 cm and you get a pitch that is at least a halftone higher. So to get the same note stopped as the open string you need to reduce the tension of the string (tune down).
Since a lot of string dealers in the USA don‘t want to stock 3/4 and 4/4 Spirocores they mostly carry the 4/4 version only. But they are closer tensionwise to the 3/4 Weich than the 3/4 Mittel Spirocores.
It can generate is a lot of confusion not to explicitly mention which version one is referring to. Specially because in Europe the 3/4 version is the standard.
The biggest confusion arises if talking about mixed sets with Spirocores and not mentioning if it is a 4/4 or 3/4 string. it is not much different if you omit Stark, Mittel, Weich and (downtuned) Solos and simply say Spiros only.
So Spiro Mittel 4/4 might be the mostly used Spirocore in the USA for 3/4 string scale basses (105 cm), but this string is a lot harder to play on my 110 cm string scale bass. Nice to play if tuned down by a halftone like the tension on a 3/4 string scale bass.
Other manufacturers (with very few exceptions) do not differentiate between 3/4 and 4/4 strings, but have different construction for 5/4 or 1/2 or smaller fractional strings, so this is hardly the topic here.
So once again I want everyone to be explicit about Spirocore and Superflexible strings, string scale and „weight“.
And I also want everybody who sees that someone was not explicit about these strings to ask for the missing information.
Some do this by mentioning the order number: Sxy for 4/4, 388x(,y) for 3/4.
x,y are digits.
If the strings are on the instrument and the string scale type is not known, they can be identified by length only (if they are not cut). The lengths vary a bit, but I have typical lengths in a file in my Dropbox to compare.
So in the USA the Spirocores are often used against their intended use. So other „Mittel“ strings typically have a higher tension than Spiro 4/4 Mittel on the same instrument.
I am having this issue with my travel bass right now. There is a set of 4/4 Spiros and 3/4 Spiros in the mix. My only clue is opened and unopened string sleeves, but all the sleeves are for 3/4 strings. I should have been more careful!
My question is, can you measure length from silk to silk to make the determination? This would allow it to be done with the strings on the bass.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
S42 Mittels are a great starting point because they can do it all on the right bass. Weich can be as good or better but can sound thin with lower setups.
True in my experience. My bass creaked under S42M, especially the A string. S42W, especially the D/G felt like playing on the wire from an electric fence. I found 3885W, which remind me more of Mittel than Weich, but keeps my bass happy and then later realized that the S42M G works great with them, by your compensated tension chart actually has slightly lower tension at my length than the 3885W G, but slightly larger diameter and for the first time, I feel like I can go about my business with a set of Spirocores and not look back.
Somewhere in our cacophony of string documents is a guide for measuring both string length and silk length to determine whether your Spirocores are a 3/4 or 4/4 set. I did a quick search and didn't find, it but it's in there. In my experience with it, it's not dead on, but you'll be closer to one or the other and that's your answer. It's a fairly big difference, as I recall, not mm's. If you happen to have a set of each, it's super-easy to tell them apart by comparing side by side.
^ if someone happens to find the measurements please link. I have some spiros which I think are S42. Would love to confirm.
HERE
Like I said, in my experience, this isn't bang on. It's possible that it depends on the age of the strings, but you'll be closer to one than the other and that's probably the best indication, short of original packaging. That and string diameter, if you have a caliper.
Chris, I posted the link above a few responses, but reading back over your post. If you have both, it's easy to tell them apart by comparing them side by side. It's not subtle, unless someone has cut them.
Don‘t forget that the lengths can differ by more than a cm. Should be clear with a complete set, but for a single string it might be a good idea to take the string down to measure the total length which would be a better indicator than the wound string length between the silks.
For those with several (old) sets of Spirocore might want to measure the lengths for their strings and tell us the deviation for each pitch.
I did not remember that the length between the silks was included in that document. I found it somewhere on the internet years ago and thought that could be helpful, so I saved it in my Dropbox with some other stuff and my files.
For those with several (old) sets of Spirocore might want to measure the lengths for their strings and tell us the deviation for each pitch.
I did not remember that the length between the silks was included in that document. I found it somewhere on the internet years ago and thought that could be helpful, so I saved it in my Dropbox with some other stuff and my files.
Last edited:
Earl
Supporting Member
Thumbs up to this. I made two string upgrades over the years. The first was a switch to Spirocore Weichs from Mittels. It was almost as if my bass changed from a thumpy sound to a nice growly sustained sound by just changing the strings. Also, they were easier to play as the tension on the string was reduced by 10%. I recently swapped those out to Spirocore Solos, which I play detuned from the solo setting (which is a whole step higher) to the usual tuning. The amount of tension on the string is 10% lower still, and it has the same nice sound that the Weichs had.
Also, I'd be amiss if I didn't give a shout out to Matt "The Bass Doc" Bohn, who made this suggestion based on knowing my bass, which he has done a lot of work on over the years, and my style of playing. So, thanks Matt!
I’ve been using Weichs for years and love them, for the most part. However my G has less punch and presence, especially in a band setting, than all other strings. I’d like to try a different G that would blend well with the set but give me more volume/power. Would Superflexible be a good option? Any advice appreciated.
Superflex G is great. Could also try the S42 medium or the 3885 weich or medium. It’s easy to get into the weeds between all the Spiro gauges.
Not sure which weich set you are using, @IdealWay, but the SuperFlexible set is stiffer and I think heavier than the Spirocore Mittel set. You might check string gauges and tensions before you buy. If you're on the S42 (4/4) Spirocore Weichs, I think a SF G will be way out balance for you. There is not a Superflexible Weich set, unfortunately. There is a solo set, maybe a tuned up G would work with S42 W, again, check the data.
If you have the 3885 Spirocore Weich set, the S42 Mittel G matches beautifully. That's been my setup for years.
It's been years since I've used Superflexibles and I have no idea if I was using the 4/4 or the 3/4 set, but they are stiffer and heavier, despite the name.
If you have the 3885 Spirocore Weich set, the S42 Mittel G matches beautifully. That's been my setup for years.
It's been years since I've used Superflexibles and I have no idea if I was using the 4/4 or the 3/4 set, but they are stiffer and heavier, despite the name.
Thanks Troy. I’m using S42 Weichs so sounds like an S42 Mittel G would be a good starting point. Anyone have one for sale?
Thanks Troy. I’m using S42 Weichs so sounds like an S42 Mittel G would be a good starting point. Anyone have one for sale?
You misunderstood me -
S42M G string is a good match (great match!) for 3885Ws.
The 3885 Weich set is closer to the S42 Mittel set than it is to the S42 Weich set in my experience. I wouldn't think it would be a good match, but you could try.
A better bet might be a 3885 Weich G or maybe a Pirastro Perpetual G or something from Corelli.
I might have a few things in my box-o-broken-dreams.
Ah, gotcha. That makes sense. Is the 3885 Weich G thicker, or just slightly higher tension? I’ve never tried Perpetuals but would definitely be interested in giving one a shot to see how it sounds on my bass. Let me know if you happen to find either in your broken dream box!
