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First time run through PA - I no likee

#21
The soundman is inexperienced or lazy. If your line out is pre-eq(which is standard), he shouldn't care about your stage sound unless it's so it's too loud or if something strange is going on. I was fortunate enough to always have had professional soundmen(sometimes not so, but that was rare) for many years playing in Vegas. Being told not to mess with backline settings is a first for me.I've yet to play a show with other bands and notice the bass player playing exactly like me with the exact tone, technique, etc. I wouldn't argue the point but I'd know the soundman is trippin' and I'd avoid using him again. It's awesome to not be so loud that you can't hear everyone but to be too low ? What a drag.
 
#22
Bredian said:
So I do a 6 band thing where we're sharing a back line. GK RB700 (500 watts+-) through a Neo 4x12. Nice rig, played through before, but the sound guy insisted we set the tones at 12 o'clock (neutral), the volume low, and the volume on the bass to max (10). .
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So who owned the backline??
My guess the soundcompany did, and they don't want there gear destroyed by people thinking they know what they are doing.
(Not a bash against the OP, just a reasoning of why they didn't want anyone playing with knobs.)

I find this to be pretty much the case on a *Local* bar/club level.

As you move up the food chain to bigger and better venues where a backline is supplied they generally are a little more open to giving you full controll of what you want.....but when dealing with a local sound provider (Like myself) that doesn't have a ton of backline equipment that can't afford to get damaged they are always going to be cautious with everyone they deal with.
 
#23
staindbass said:
the soundman is supposed to mix the sounds so that the audience hears the band. the soundman should not interfere with the bands sound and character. otherwise, all the bands he mixes will sound the same. the guys making 5-6 grand a week mixing bands who have sold millions of records would never even think of doing such a thing.
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Says it all.
The BEST sound people listen to the band on stage(or in the studio) and try their best to duplicate that via FOH(or CD).

FWIW, I've gone over to the darkside after hauling massive gear for 30~40 years and found my rig fighting with the mains in the 30~250 Hz region. Now I use one or two kickbacks(Hartke or Behringer) with aluminum speakers as the let me hear the definition and clarity while the PA subs slave away pumping out low end. The drummer gets his monitor and we're good to go.
 
#24
the soundman is supposed to mix the sounds so that the audience hears the band. the soundman should not interfere with the bands sound and character. otherwise, all the bands he mixes will sound the same. the guys making 5-6 grand a week mixing bands who have sold millions of records would never even think of doing such a thing.

Says it all.
The BEST sound people listen to the band on stage(or in the studio) and try their best to duplicate that via FOH(or CD).
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FALSE. well, sometimes false.

As a soundguy I often have the bass player turn the stage volume completely off, listen to the FOH tone, and ask them if that's what they're going for. Sometimes the bassist will suggest more mids, or whatever, and I'll comply. Then I have them mix the stage volume back in.

However, there are many instances where this simply won't work. As mentioned it's not usually the band who gets final say. It's the client, the promoter, the bar owner, the gear owner, etc. Many times they want different things then the band wants. And everyone thinks they're the most important one. The soundguy then becomes the mediator, trying to please as many of those people as possible.

Then there are the inexperienced, young, or tone def players who don't know what sounds good, or just think they do. Then I'm doing everything I can to fix their horrible tone. Just taking what's coming off stage and amplifying it could piss off the client, torment the audience, or even damage the PA.

My point is that many times the soundguy has to be a psychologist also. Figure out when and who's opinion to take, be it the bassist, the client, the owner, or their own.
 
#25
jaywa said:
Unfortunately that Hammond bass pedal sound is "good bass tone" in the minds of a lot of FOH engineers, especially at the mid to bottom tiers of the pay scale as well as most churches. I hear that kind of bass tone all the time in live settings (felt but not heard) and it drives me nuts. Can I hear the actual note and some articulation, please?
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Agreed.
 
#26
walker rosewood said:
The soundguy then becomes the mediator, trying to please as many of those people as possible.
...
My point is that many times the soundguy has to be a psychologist also. Figure out when and who's opinion to take, be it the bassist, the client, the owner, or their own.
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+1 Excellent point. In these kind of situations its nice to have one person who has the final say, but sometimes that's not the case. It becomes a impossible situation, cuz if you try to please everyone, then nobody's happy.
 
#27
Appreciate the input - all, even from the pro sound guys. I now know what I'm dealing with and how to deal with it.

The majority or players at the show were less inexperienced. Understood. I too was inexperienced with PA guys. Guitar players pretty much had full reign on their tones.

In all deference to pro PA guys, no matter how great they are, if I'm asked to play somewhere, paid or not, no matter who owns the back line, the tone I bring is a part of what was asked for, whether specific or not. I decide. (it wasn't a loudness issue)

Try telling the next singer that arrives for a show, that you're only offering Robert Plant or Robert Goulet tones for them, take it or leave it.
 
#28
miltllama said:
This may be the case when the band directly hires a sound guy/PA, but for 95% of the shows I work on, both the band and the sound company are hired by the same client, generally a production company representing the end client. In that case, the sound tech works for the client, and they get what they want.

If you (the sound guy) have a good working relationship with the producers, they will trust you to make good decisions, and generally leave you alone. This also applies to the band; the client gets what they want, and it's not about making the band happy.

This is not to say that the band couldn't be perfectly happy and have a great experience, and of course creating an optimal environment for the band is the primary job of the monitor tech. My point is, ultimately, it's not all about the band, and nobody likes working with a prima donna, whatever job they happen to be doing.
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I appreciate your professional approach and I'm willing to bet we'd have no problem achieving a great result if we worked together. But what you describe doesn't sound like what the OP experienced. Honestly, if you were mixing & wanted a different level or tone from me, would you ask me to adjust my settings or would you walk up & fiddle w/my controls? To me there's a big difference. Mutual respect is an important part of any successful working relationship. Even an inexperienced band deserves a chance to solve their own sound issues with guidance from the board, even on a busy night.
 
#29
If you do gigs and always complain about soundmen:
HIRE YOUR OWN GUY

Explain to him what you want and if he doesn't do what you want , you simply hire another one. You won't have any more reasons to bitch&Moan on that subject.

miltllama said:
This may be the case when the band directly hires a sound guy/PA, but for 95% of the shows I work on, both the band and the sound company are hired by the same client, generally a production company representing the end client. In that case, the sound tech works for the client, and they get what they want.
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+10000000

If you hire your own soundman , then he answers to the band , not to the producer/booker/agent/client.
 
#30
Not the intent to make this a bitch and moan - but to educate me on how and when to ask for help, what I'm entitled to, how to approach the sound guy and be intelligent about it.

Not owning the sound system isn't going to stop me from asking...

Heard what I needed to hear @ TB. Thank you much folks.
 

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