I just ordered my first fretless bass. I've never played one before and was curious if anyone had any tips for someone that has only played with frets. The new bass should be here in a few days. I have been working hard on my fretted bass to play as close to the frets as possible to prepare myself (and also improve my technique) for the new bass. I am really curious as to how it will sound as I've never touched one before. I've seen them in music stores but never tried one out as I didn't want to sound like a fool since I've never played one before.
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first time with fretless
- Thread starter Rocks
- Start date
IME The (CD) tracks you used to play along to on fretted, now play along with the fretless, it will show you a little of whats involved in that magic quality you need.... good intonation! 
When you play a fretted bass, you just tune up and play. When you play fretless you have to tune up and LISTEN while you play
Does it feel much different when I'm playing as far as how my fingers feel when fretting (or whatever its called without frets) a note?
When you play a fretted bass, you just tune up and play. When you play fretless you have to tune up and LISTEN while you play
Actually, you should always listen closely - to yourself as well as everyone with whom you play - regardless of whether you're playing fretted or fretless. It's just that you have very little relative margin of error on a fretless.
To the OP: Very first order of business will be to get a first-class set-up. Don't' scrimp on this - it's vital. Bring it to a tech or a luthier who really knows what he's doing.
MM
I always listen to the rest of the band when I play, mostly the drummer of course but the rest as to where we are in the song, the feel of the song and what I can add or subtract from what I am doing to make the band sound its best.
I've been doing my own setups for years. I have a peterson strobe tuner that I keep on while playing as well. this gives me a good idea as to if the notes I'm playing are in tune or not so I know when I need to adjust intonation. My ears are pretty good, but the peterson takes away any guessing.
I'm by no means an expert and have not been playing fretless as long or as exclusively as many other fine players here, but here's my two cents, for what it's worth, based on what has worked for me over the years:
1. Your ears are THE most important aspect of playing fretless, so develop them and make sure you can hear what you're playing, especially if you plan on playing out with a band. Me, I use in-ear monitors, which are not for everyone but give me the perfect isolation and clarity I need to hear every nuance of what I'm playing and play the way I want to play. This is key, as fretless is heavily dependent on the touch. You don't want to have to be digging into every note just to be heard over a wall of sound, especially when so much of the beauty of fretless voicings lies in a lighter touch. If you don't want to use in-ears, at the very least make sure you can hear what you're doing and possibly get yourself a floor wedge or other monitor. Do NOT let some wanking guitarist turned up to 11 deprive you of your need to hear yourself!
2. Ditto on the setup, unless you know what you're doing (and it seems you might). If you're used to doing your own setup/intonation, be aware that it's a bit harder to do on your own even with a Peterson Strobe because even the slightest mis-positioning (for lack of a better non-word) of a finger can alter your ability to intonate accurately. So the typical open string/12th fret intonation check would need to be further checked across the neck. Some people will use a capo or straight edge pressured across the 12th fret to help, but even that's not 100% perfect. But when all is said and done it's your ears that need to do the most work (see point #1). I do my own setups and I actually have my D and G strings intonated slightly flatter past the 12th fret because I found that my technique (or lack thereof, LOL) and arm/finger angle/balls of fingers were naturally overshooting notes sharp even with the aid of lines. (Yeah, I could learn to play the right way, but I'm lazy). Using my ears, I now comfortably hit the notes I want and I can honestly say my intonation is very good. Perhaps not the ideal solution, but it works well for me, and I've even read interviews with some fretless players who claim they've never had their instruments intonated or adjusted. (Mick Karn, for one). They simply use their ears to find the proper notes and manipulate notes to achieve tunefulness (i.e. trills, vibrato, slides, etc). But I wouldn't recommend learning this way, LOL.
3. Understand the character of a fretless. I first took up fretless because I wanted that tone on some studio recordings I was doing. Using my ears and my lined fretless J, I was able to lay down a "terrific" track on my fretless '77 Jazz. My fellow musicians and the producer commended me on my spot-on intonation. In fact, the producer said, "It's so good I can't tell it's a fretless." And therein was the problem with the track.
I understood how to play it in near perfect tune, but I knew nothing about how to summon forth the voices of the fretless. I simply "played" the notes, plucking back closer to the bridge as I usually do on my fretted Js. But this does bring me to another "happy"? discovery that will no doubt cause some controversy:
4. Bad intonation is like nails on a chalkboard to me, and while I will make no excuses for poor playing I will state that bad intonation is at least less perceptible to our ears in certain frequencies as well as where and how you play along the strings. There are also certain basses I find more forgiving than others in this respect (fretless Precisions, for example), if for no other reason than they offer less of a tonal spectrum than others. Take my Jazz bass example above. Plucking back near the bridge: shorter attack, more staccato tones with less blossom to the notes and therefore, less perceptible poor intonation or "mwah" where nasty sharp/flat notes may be hiding if you're not careful. But PLEASE don't misunderstand me: If you're not at least in the ballpark, nothing's gonna help you.
5. If you're new to fretless but have at least played fretted basses in the past, I'd suggest getting a fretless version of what you're familiar with, at least to start since it can help speed up the process, IMO. Certainly not a prerequisite, but it helped me tremendously. Familiarity breeds content. I played fretted Fender Jazz basses almost exclusively for 20 years so when I pursued fretless about 10 years ago I started on a fretless Jazz since I know the ins and outs of Jazzes and they feel like a second glove to me. I now own 5 fretless basses (Wal Mark I, Pedulla Buzz, Precision, Jazz, and Ashbory), and while they're all different in scale, tone, etc. I can play all of them fine without confusion thanks to cutting my teeth on an instrument I already knew my way around.
1. Your ears are THE most important aspect of playing fretless, so develop them and make sure you can hear what you're playing, especially if you plan on playing out with a band. Me, I use in-ear monitors, which are not for everyone but give me the perfect isolation and clarity I need to hear every nuance of what I'm playing and play the way I want to play. This is key, as fretless is heavily dependent on the touch. You don't want to have to be digging into every note just to be heard over a wall of sound, especially when so much of the beauty of fretless voicings lies in a lighter touch. If you don't want to use in-ears, at the very least make sure you can hear what you're doing and possibly get yourself a floor wedge or other monitor. Do NOT let some wanking guitarist turned up to 11 deprive you of your need to hear yourself!
2. Ditto on the setup, unless you know what you're doing (and it seems you might). If you're used to doing your own setup/intonation, be aware that it's a bit harder to do on your own even with a Peterson Strobe because even the slightest mis-positioning (for lack of a better non-word) of a finger can alter your ability to intonate accurately. So the typical open string/12th fret intonation check would need to be further checked across the neck. Some people will use a capo or straight edge pressured across the 12th fret to help, but even that's not 100% perfect. But when all is said and done it's your ears that need to do the most work (see point #1). I do my own setups and I actually have my D and G strings intonated slightly flatter past the 12th fret because I found that my technique (or lack thereof, LOL) and arm/finger angle/balls of fingers were naturally overshooting notes sharp even with the aid of lines. (Yeah, I could learn to play the right way, but I'm lazy). Using my ears, I now comfortably hit the notes I want and I can honestly say my intonation is very good. Perhaps not the ideal solution, but it works well for me, and I've even read interviews with some fretless players who claim they've never had their instruments intonated or adjusted. (Mick Karn, for one). They simply use their ears to find the proper notes and manipulate notes to achieve tunefulness (i.e. trills, vibrato, slides, etc). But I wouldn't recommend learning this way, LOL.
3. Understand the character of a fretless. I first took up fretless because I wanted that tone on some studio recordings I was doing. Using my ears and my lined fretless J, I was able to lay down a "terrific" track on my fretless '77 Jazz. My fellow musicians and the producer commended me on my spot-on intonation. In fact, the producer said, "It's so good I can't tell it's a fretless." And therein was the problem with the track.
I understood how to play it in near perfect tune, but I knew nothing about how to summon forth the voices of the fretless. I simply "played" the notes, plucking back closer to the bridge as I usually do on my fretted Js. But this does bring me to another "happy"? discovery that will no doubt cause some controversy:4. Bad intonation is like nails on a chalkboard to me, and while I will make no excuses for poor playing I will state that bad intonation is at least less perceptible to our ears in certain frequencies as well as where and how you play along the strings. There are also certain basses I find more forgiving than others in this respect (fretless Precisions, for example), if for no other reason than they offer less of a tonal spectrum than others. Take my Jazz bass example above. Plucking back near the bridge: shorter attack, more staccato tones with less blossom to the notes and therefore, less perceptible poor intonation or "mwah" where nasty sharp/flat notes may be hiding if you're not careful. But PLEASE don't misunderstand me: If you're not at least in the ballpark, nothing's gonna help you.
5. If you're new to fretless but have at least played fretted basses in the past, I'd suggest getting a fretless version of what you're familiar with, at least to start since it can help speed up the process, IMO. Certainly not a prerequisite, but it helped me tremendously. Familiarity breeds content. I played fretted Fender Jazz basses almost exclusively for 20 years so when I pursued fretless about 10 years ago I started on a fretless Jazz since I know the ins and outs of Jazzes and they feel like a second glove to me. I now own 5 fretless basses (Wal Mark I, Pedulla Buzz, Precision, Jazz, and Ashbory), and while they're all different in scale, tone, etc. I can play all of them fine without confusion thanks to cutting my teeth on an instrument I already knew my way around.
I really dislike how people make fretless seem like something superior to fretted and how it's completely different. I play both, I love both. There's differences and your approach will change somewhat, but it will be easy to adapt to. First off, fretless has no sustain in the second octave, if you like playing there from time to time, or do fills there, it's something very dry sounding; when I say there's no sustain, I mean that literally. Also, with fretless, if you have a systematic way of seeing the fretboard, your approach will have to change somewhat to account for the fact that anywhere you press it sounds different.
Furthermore, some people here have said you need to develop your ear extensively. I couldn't agree more, but I think that applies to any instrument, fretted or not. You can't make music if you don't listen right. The mwah a fretless provides can either be extremely satisfying or completely obtrusive in your music. I love playing fretless for the comfort, but the mwah stands out too much most of the time and can be a little distracting if your playing a very deep song. My opinion, I suppose.
Furthermore, some people here have said you need to develop your ear extensively. I couldn't agree more, but I think that applies to any instrument, fretted or not. You can't make music if you don't listen right. The mwah a fretless provides can either be extremely satisfying or completely obtrusive in your music. I love playing fretless for the comfort, but the mwah stands out too much most of the time and can be a little distracting if your playing a very deep song. My opinion, I suppose.
IME I had a fretless rehearsal a while back and stopped after the track...'is that guitar sharp?' Guitarist checks with tuner...'yes it is'... I wouldn't personally rely on electronic tuners for anything other than slow deliberate practice, I don't have the time in a playing situ, for home shedding I use the open strings for reference (5 string) and play over the drone in all areas of the neck for intonation practise, keeping vision, using ears, and map it out how I see/hear it for good pitching on the job IMO.
pjmuck,
Thanks for the good info. I don't do my intonations on the open and 12th frets anymore. I learned by reading the manual that came with the peterson that you get a better intonation by using the 5th and 17th frets. It takes the nut out of the equation as the nut may not be perfect. For example, the height and slots of the nut may not be perfect.
I do most of my playing on the end of the neck closest to the headstock. I call the first 7 frets "the money frets" as in thats in where I make most of my money. Sure, I do play higher up the neck when needed but the way I see it I'm playing a bass in the 5 piece band (2 guitars) and I need to stay in the lower registers and fill out the bottom end.
I also don't go for the lowest possible action. I play with medium gauge Chromes on all my basses.
Thanks for the good info. I don't do my intonations on the open and 12th frets anymore. I learned by reading the manual that came with the peterson that you get a better intonation by using the 5th and 17th frets. It takes the nut out of the equation as the nut may not be perfect. For example, the height and slots of the nut may not be perfect.
I do most of my playing on the end of the neck closest to the headstock. I call the first 7 frets "the money frets" as in thats in where I make most of my money. Sure, I do play higher up the neck when needed but the way I see it I'm playing a bass in the 5 piece band (2 guitars) and I need to stay in the lower registers and fill out the bottom end.
I also don't go for the lowest possible action. I play with medium gauge Chromes on all my basses.
I forgot to mention, I used to play slide trombone so I am familiar with instruments that require an ear and muscle memory to get the right notes. On fretted I play a lot with my eyes closed. One of the reason I wanted a fretless is to help make my ears even better. At home I practice using headphones mostly as I play late at night and I don't want to wake up the lady of the house, she is far meaner than I, lol
I also recently picked up an AEB to add to my collection of basses. I figure the more well rounded I am on different types of bass playing the better it will make me as a good all around musician. It also open up more doors as to bands that can use me.
I also recently picked up an AEB to add to my collection of basses. I figure the more well rounded I am on different types of bass playing the better it will make me as a good all around musician. It also open up more doors as to bands that can use me.
FRETLESS SUX!!! (there,.. i said it)
i had mine for all of 6 months and compared to the expression i can get from my fretted instruments made the fretless sound like...., meh.
(just my biased opinion)
but that's just me but, you may love it. as a matter of fact, even fretless virtuoso's bore me to tears after one solo. (Jaco is one of the few exceptions)
i had mine for all of 6 months and compared to the expression i can get from my fretted instruments made the fretless sound like...., meh.
(just my biased opinion)
but that's just me but, you may love it. as a matter of fact, even fretless virtuoso's bore me to tears after one solo. (Jaco is one of the few exceptions)
I guess to each their own...
Myself I can make music even when there are no instruments around. I often play drums while driving, legs, steering wheel, even the side window and dash board can be used for different sounds. In a lot of old blues they played notes that aren't even part of any normal scale, one musician (I think it was Warren Haynes) referred to them as "brown notes", or tones between the notes.
The way I see it, if you want to make music, you can do it with anything. I just can't see any lack of expression when without frets it seems there are no limits as to what can be done. Did you ever think maybe frets are kind of like training wheels to some bassists here?
You're quite welcome,
I guess being an ex slide trombone player that used to wonder why they made trombones with valves instead of slides I realized that the fretless is kind of like a slide trombone. Where a valve trombone was more like a fretted bass. Of course there is a difference as a valve trombone does allow one to play notes faster as it is less distance to move a muscle to get to the next note, but you lost the mwah you could get with the slide.
