Double Bass Five string vs C extension

[g-dude]

I was contemplating this today as I was having to play tuba parts…

What do people general feel the pros and cons are of a well designed five string vs a C-extension?

 

[Mark_T]

I think this has been well covered over the years, a search will turn up more details.

TLDRIMHO:
A 5 string can put extra pressure on the top and disrupt string spacing (A in the middle!). It's in the way if you're not using it all the time, a lot of the instrument is reconfigured just for a few notes. Some people claim the B can be muddy, because the length isn't sufficient. But, it's more natural to simply continue laterally rather than vertically.

An extension adds weight and messes with the vibration of the scroll, and it's more awkward to play. But it doesn't add tension to the top or mess with the string spacing. The extra length makes the notes potentially clearer.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Just to be clear and avoid confusion a tuba part is written at pitch and a DB part is written an octave higher than pitch. A written first space A in a DB part would be written three ledger lines below the staff in a tuba part. The ability to transpose tuba parts up an octave as a DB player is a useful skill to have. I'm assuming the OP knows this, but others may not. An extention low C is written two ledger lines below the staff. A note that low on the tuba assuming it's possible
would have more ledger lines than I care to think about.

 

[g-dude]

Just to be clear and avoid confusion a tuba part is written at pitch and a DB part is written an octave higher than pitch. A written first space A in a DB part would be written three ledger lines below the staff in a tuba part. The ability to transpose tuba parts up an octave as a DB player is a useful skill to have. I'm assuming the OP knows this, but others may not. An extention low C is written two ledger lines below the staff. A note that low on the tuba assuming it's possible
would have more ledger lines than I care to think about.

Frankly, I sort of enjoy playing an octave below the tubas on my bass guitar…especially when there are like four tubas.

And you are 100% right that the ability to transpose on the fly is useful.

 

[Paps]

As an amateur, for all the reasons given above, I have no intention of interfering with my 4 string for a few extra notes on rare occasions in Orchestra. Save money, transpose those rare notes and sound good!

 

[Bruce Calin]

It's true that for most players neither option is monetarily worth the investment but there are some orchestral works that make the concept worthwhile. The first time I heard my old principal play the low Db in "Mathis der Maler" I was a believer.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Frankly, I sort of enjoy playing an octave below the tubas on my bass guitar…especially when there are like four tubas.

And you are 100% right that the ability to transpose on the fly is useful.

Does the rest of the group complain about the earthquake?

 

[Mark_T]

As an amateur, for all the reasons given above, I have no intention of interfering with my 4 string for a few extra notes on rare occasions in Orchestra. Save money, transpose those rare notes and sound good!

I have an extension on my good bass but I am super-conflicted about having one. It's so satisfying to play those low notes, and I'm usually the only one in my section who can reach them. Also, pieces like the Eroica are a bit easier when you don't have to cross strings in the middle of a run to reach a transposed Eb.

On the other hand, the extension is hard to play on for fingered notes, it takes special strings, and it adds weight and cost to the instrument. And there's no telling what effect it has on the tone of my instrument (I've never taken the extension off to see, because it's a hassle).

If I was sure the rest of my section would contain at least one or 2 extensions, or that I wouldn't get called up by a better orchestra, I'd probably take it off and forget it. Of course, in a perfect world, I'd just have Seth make me a second, smaller bass, and I'd leave the extension off.

One more anecdote about 5 strings - I lived in Denmark for a year and rented a bass there. It was an old Benedikt Lang 5 string that had been converted down to 4 strings. It even still had the 5th machine on the scroll. It was very reasonably sized, sounded nice, and played great. The luthier I had rented it from told me that the bass had been a lousy 5 string, but sounded much better when they took off the 5th string and adjusted the bridge & nut to match.

 

[Sam Dingle]

I have an extension on my good bass but I am super-conflicted about having one. It's so satisfying to play those low notes, and I'm usually the only one in my section who can reach them. Also, pieces like the Eroica are a bit easier when you don't have to cross strings in the middle of a run to reach a transposed Eb.

On the other hand, the extension is hard to play on for fingered notes, it takes special strings, and it adds weight and cost to the instrument. And there's no telling what effect it has on the tone of my instrument (I've never taken the extension off to see, because it's a hassle).

If I was sure the rest of my section would contain at least one or 2 extensions, or that I wouldn't get called up by a better orchestra, I'd probably take it off and forget it. Of course, in a perfect world, I'd just have Seth make me a second, smaller bass, and I'd leave the extension off.

One more anecdote about 5 strings - I lived in Denmark for a year and rented a bass there. It was an old Benedikt Lang 5 string that had been converted down to 4 strings. It even still had the 5th machine on the scroll. It was very reasonably sized, sounded nice, and played great. The luthier I had rented it from told me that the bass had been a lousy 5 string, but sounded much better when they took off the 5th string and adjusted the bridge & nut to match.

my juzek opened up the low end when i added an extension. I agree about the cost and weight of it as well as the strings. its a pain in the ass.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I have an extension on my good bass but I am super-conflicted about having one. It's so satisfying to play those low notes, and I'm usually the only one in my section who can reach them. Also, pieces like the Eroica are a bit easier when you don't have to cross strings in the middle of a run to reach a transposed Eb.

On the other hand, the extension is hard to play on for fingered notes, it takes special strings, and it adds weight and cost to the instrument. And there's no telling what effect it has on the tone of my instrument (I've never taken the extension off to see, because it's a hassle).

If I was sure the rest of my section would contain at least one or 2 extensions, or that I wouldn't get called up by a better orchestra, I'd probably take it off and forget it. Of course, in a perfect world, I'd just have Seth make me a second, smaller bass, and I'd leave the extension off.

I have taken mine off a few times for various reasons. It's actually quite light and doesn't seem to affect anything soundwise. It's a fingered C with capos so not a lot of hardware and is easy to take off and put on. I'm glad I have it. Trying to play fast passages or quick changes is not terribly practical but there are still many uses. Too fast in the extreme low register is kind of a lost cause acoustically anyway. I agree about the string hassle and expense but to me it's still worth it.

 

[AGCurry]

Too fast in the extreme low register is kind of a lost cause acoustically anyway.

Yet composers continue to write music that way.

 

[mtto]

I play a 5 string, and I put an extension on my last bass.

I generally hated the extension. Being able to gate a note lower than E is cool. Playing on it is a drag, and even passages that would be easy on the fingerboard can be awkward.

My current bass is a Shen copy of Robert Spear bass built for Paul Unger, who is a member here. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

The design is meant for 5ths tuning, but I tune in 4ths with a C on the bottom. Next time I play Pines of Rome, I’ll tune to B.

Spear studied with Carleen Hutchins. My bass is loud, present, and plays evenly across all five strings into thumb position. When I have the money, I will order a bass from Mr Spear and keep my current bass for travel, as it has a detachable neck and flight case.

 

[g-dude]

Does the rest of the group complain about the earthquake?

I got compliments on the tone, as well as a friendly punch from a baritone player. Listening to the recording my wife made, it gave everything a nice grounding.

I kept things in check volume-wise though. I figured I had my own octave to hang out in, and it’s really about the ensemble sounding good.

 

[g-dude]

Yet composers continue to write music that way.

I’m convinced that the bass parts that we play - both double and guitar - are written by someone who is only aware of the bass as an abstract idea.

 

[Bruce Calin]

I’m convinced that the bass parts that we play - both double and guitar - are written by someone who is only aware of the bass as an abstract idea.

I did a recording session several years ago for a composer who claimed expertise on the bass as well as several other instruments he had "mastered". They were among the lamest, most amateurish parts I have ever played in a supposedly "serious" composition.

 

[g-dude]

I did a recording session several years ago for a composer who claimed expertise on the bass as well as several other instruments he had "mastered". They were among the lamest, most amateurish parts I have ever played in a supposedly "serious" composition.

This was sort of the opposite. It was “hey, maybe we should make the bass part look like a fast timpani part, even though the original is a lot simpler.”

 

[the_Ryan]

I think 5-strings are a much more elegant solution for reaching the low notes compared to an extension. Having said that, the big downsides are that it's way more expensive to have a 4-string converted to a 5-string than it is to have an extension put on (new neck, fingerboard, bridge, and tailpiece vs. one hole for the string to pass through and a couple screws for stability), I think they sound best when the string length is ≥42" (which is more normal in Germany and Austria and less so in the US and Canada), fewer basses are good candidates for a 5-string conversion, and on this side of the pond it's very hard to find a good 5-string bass without commissioning one (unlike Europe where there are 5-strings in abundance).

Ultimately though, while I would prefer to have a 5-string for my orchestra bass, I'm very happy with my Laborie with an extension, I'm not really looking for a new instrument, and if I was looking for a new instrument in the US (without commissioning a bass) the number of strings or presence of an extension would be very low on my list of priorities because I could always add an extension to a 4-string bass after purchase.

 

[BassFalcon]

I have a new Upton 5-string. It’s amazing and I love it. Having played extended range electric basses for 20 or so years reaching across for the low notes made more sense than reaching above the nut. It’s the first 5er I’ve ever played and it’s definitely the right choice for me. As far as pros, first and foremost that B string is absolutely amazing. Leatherwood 50 makes it just bark, no mud, lightening fast. I like the closer string spacing and the flatter radius, I feel it facilitates speed and ease of playing, there is a bit of a learning curve, but it’s nothing too serious. I think the sympathetic vibration of the low B adds a lot of richness to the middle and upper register that you don’t get without it. Along with the usual stuff you hear about expanded fingering options in each position.

 

[g-dude]

I have a new Upton 5-string. It’s amazing and I love it. Having played extended range electric basses for 20 or so years reaching across for the low notes made more sense than reaching above the nut. It’s the first 5er I’ve ever played and it’s definitely the right choice for me. As far as pros, first and foremost that B string is absolutely amazing. Leatherwood 50 makes it just bark, no mud, lightening fast. I like the closer string spacing and the flatter radius, I feel it facilitates speed and ease of playing, there is a bit of a learning curve, but it’s nothing too serious. I think the sympathetic vibration of the low B adds a lot of richness to the middle and upper register that you don’t get without it. Along with the usual stuff you hear about expanded fingering options in each position.

Love to hear this.

When I’m in a position to get a new bass, the plan is to upgrade my Upton.

 

[BassFalcon]

Love to hear this.

When I’m in a position to get a new bass, the plan is to upgrade my Upton.

For what it’s worth when spec-ing out a new Upton build the 5 string upgrade plus the requisite 7/8 size upgrade and the B-string itself is $1380 total, the extension starts at $1500 but that only comes with one gate at E, once you add in the additional cost of the extended string and any other gates you may want you’re up over 2k.