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Double Bass Five string vs C extension
- Thread starter g-dude
- Start date
Bohemian. Flatback, hybrid, deluxe carving on the top.
I love these threads.
It is an enduring question - how to best get this large instrument down to low C? - a question that can never be fully resolved as each solution is a compromise. 5-string basses have closer spaced strings and additional tension on the top, but can be played down to low C in the same position one is familiar with from a 4-string bass. Extensions leave the string spacing the same and don't add the tension of an additional string to the top, but require a different technique to finger notes up around the scroll. Each one may work for different people in different contexts, and some people will heartily defend the direction they've chosen. The novice or amateur who chooses to explore this question will quickly find that their inquiry has no clear answer - ultimately each musician must figure out what works best for them. That can involve significant investment of time and money; it can be difficult to get one's hands on each type of instrument and then spend enough time with the instrument, with a sufficient variety of repertoire, to determine one's personal preference.
It is a question for which this forum will never be able to provide sufficient information, but to save a bit of that time and money we all wish it could.
And then, sometimes you'll get crazy people popping in to say but wait, there is a third way - just change everything you've been doing and tune your bass in fifths, CGDA. And before anyone takes offense at "crazy," well, I wanted to pop in here to say that it is worthwhile to consider tuning your bass in fifths. It is again a compromise, but with different tradeoffs. You get to keep four strings and get an expanded range without an extension, but you have to have a more flexible approach to moving around the fingerboard.
I was inspired to try fifths tuning by some of the previous arguments about 5-strings vs. extensions on TalkBass. I probably wouldn't have stuck with it except that I had spent some of our recent collective downtime doing David Allen Moore's Fractal Fingering exercises on Discover Double Bass. Those aren't directed at fifths tuning, but the course improved my overall understanding of the fingerboard and offered exercises that really helped to hone my left hand shape. Thus, when I decided to give fifths tuning a whirl, it wasn't like walking into a wall - more like stepping onto the moving loading platform of one of those continuously-moving amusement park rides. An adjustment was required, but it wasn't like I forgot how to walk.
While certainly not for everyone, a set of strings tuned in fifths is cheaper than an extension or a fifth string, so it may be an easier option to explore for some people. The 41.25" string length on my Shen plays C just fine - though its purpose is just for practice and your mileage may vary in performance settings.
People of TalkBass, let us always remember all the ways we can play low C. With perseverance and dedication, we can ensure that the double bass continues to not be a standardized instrument well into the 21st century. May it never be a boring old violin.
For further reading, I found these articles interesting, if you haven't seen them yet:
The Fifths System of Tuning Through the Ages — Joel Quarrington
The Double Bass Tuned in Fifths — Joel Quarrington
It is an enduring question - how to best get this large instrument down to low C? - a question that can never be fully resolved as each solution is a compromise. 5-string basses have closer spaced strings and additional tension on the top, but can be played down to low C in the same position one is familiar with from a 4-string bass. Extensions leave the string spacing the same and don't add the tension of an additional string to the top, but require a different technique to finger notes up around the scroll. Each one may work for different people in different contexts, and some people will heartily defend the direction they've chosen. The novice or amateur who chooses to explore this question will quickly find that their inquiry has no clear answer - ultimately each musician must figure out what works best for them. That can involve significant investment of time and money; it can be difficult to get one's hands on each type of instrument and then spend enough time with the instrument, with a sufficient variety of repertoire, to determine one's personal preference.
It is a question for which this forum will never be able to provide sufficient information, but to save a bit of that time and money we all wish it could.
And then, sometimes you'll get crazy people popping in to say but wait, there is a third way - just change everything you've been doing and tune your bass in fifths, CGDA. And before anyone takes offense at "crazy," well, I wanted to pop in here to say that it is worthwhile to consider tuning your bass in fifths. It is again a compromise, but with different tradeoffs. You get to keep four strings and get an expanded range without an extension, but you have to have a more flexible approach to moving around the fingerboard.
I was inspired to try fifths tuning by some of the previous arguments about 5-strings vs. extensions on TalkBass. I probably wouldn't have stuck with it except that I had spent some of our recent collective downtime doing David Allen Moore's Fractal Fingering exercises on Discover Double Bass. Those aren't directed at fifths tuning, but the course improved my overall understanding of the fingerboard and offered exercises that really helped to hone my left hand shape. Thus, when I decided to give fifths tuning a whirl, it wasn't like walking into a wall - more like stepping onto the moving loading platform of one of those continuously-moving amusement park rides. An adjustment was required, but it wasn't like I forgot how to walk.
While certainly not for everyone, a set of strings tuned in fifths is cheaper than an extension or a fifth string, so it may be an easier option to explore for some people. The 41.25" string length on my Shen plays C just fine - though its purpose is just for practice and your mileage may vary in performance settings.
People of TalkBass, let us always remember all the ways we can play low C. With perseverance and dedication, we can ensure that the double bass continues to not be a standardized instrument well into the 21st century. May it never be a boring old violin.
For further reading, I found these articles interesting, if you haven't seen them yet:
The Fifths System of Tuning Through the Ages — Joel Quarrington
The Double Bass Tuned in Fifths — Joel Quarrington
Nice! I feel drawn to the Mittenwald for some reason. I have the standard laminate.
I used to be dead set on extensions (and I have one on my bass) but I just recently played a colleague's 5 string and I might be converted... I'm gonna be in the market for a new bass soon and those big Pollmanns are tempting.
To better answer your question, after playing around on that 5 string for a couple of minutes, my conclusion came to this: in situations where you play maybe one or two "sub E" notes in a passage, the extension is pretty nice because you can just set it to the one note and that's it. Ein Heldenleben is a great example of this, i.e., setting it to Eb at reh 77 and you're done. Doing that on a 5 string is kind of annoying because you have this bass that's more cumbersome to play for the sake of one low note in a phrase.
That said, in stuff like Shosty 5 or Beethoven 3, the 5 string is really nice. The passages feel much more natural. I like to view it as: being able to put low notes away when you don't need them, or have them easier to play but always there.
To better answer your question, after playing around on that 5 string for a couple of minutes, my conclusion came to this: in situations where you play maybe one or two "sub E" notes in a passage, the extension is pretty nice because you can just set it to the one note and that's it. Ein Heldenleben is a great example of this, i.e., setting it to Eb at reh 77 and you're done. Doing that on a 5 string is kind of annoying because you have this bass that's more cumbersome to play for the sake of one low note in a phrase.
That said, in stuff like Shosty 5 or Beethoven 3, the 5 string is really nice. The passages feel much more natural. I like to view it as: being able to put low notes away when you don't need them, or have them easier to play but always there.
5 strings all the way! But you need one that’s designed well to be a 5 stringer from the get go and isn’t overbuilt.
I will admit a B string takes a little extra juice to start arco, but I’ll take that extra effort in exchange for the added agility of having access to the rest of the bass under my fingers.
I will admit a B string takes a little extra juice to start arco, but I’ll take that extra effort in exchange for the added agility of having access to the rest of the bass under my fingers.
Somehow I think these threads are connected:
Bass to Poellmann Workshop.
There's a very good Eastman 605 5-stringer and a Pollman Emperor 5-string for sale in SoCal. Both are a bit too big for me (he said eyeing the Salzburg again!)
Bass to Poellmann Workshop.
There's a very good Eastman 605 5-stringer and a Pollman Emperor 5-string for sale in SoCal. Both are a bit too big for me (he said eyeing the Salzburg again!)
