Communication is a skill. It is unfortunate that it can be so undervalued at times.
You are right to cut ties and move forward.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Flakes
- Thread starter Mantis Tobaggan
- Start date
Communication is a skill. It is unfortunate that it can be so undervalued at times.
You are right to cut ties and move forward.
I've never flaked on anyone, in a band or any other situation. If something came up and I honestly couldn't make it, I contact someone to let them know and then I go out of my way to make it right later. I don't think it's that hard, either, so I don't understand why anyone else would do that.
There are flakes outside of music, of course, but it seems to me to way more common when it comes to bands for some reason. Maybe it has to do with the type of personalities interested in being in bands? Drugs (ya think)? Something, anyway. I just hate having someone waste my time.
There are flakes outside of music, of course, but it seems to me to way more common when it comes to bands for some reason. Maybe it has to do with the type of personalities interested in being in bands? Drugs (ya think)? Something, anyway. I just hate having someone waste my time.
This post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I don't understand how you, or anyone else for that matter, can imply that the drummer wasn't the problem.
I'll give you an example...
The rhythm guitar player is constantly too loud and dialing in way too much low end... It's the drummers fault. The drummer is obviously too loud and tuning his drums wrong forcing the poor guitar player to crank and chug...
Here's another...
The lead vocalist can't make it to gigs in time to help set up the PA or do a soundcheck... It's the drummer again. The drummer obviously has too many drums that always take forever to set up. The singer just sat around waiting to lift speakers onto poles and run cables. Then, when the drummer was all set, it took the whole soundcheck for him to get the 5 snare drum mics perfectly aligned so there were no phase issues and that signature ping could really pop in the mix. By the time he was done the singer had lost his voice doing warm ups for way too long. Now he sits in the car drinking tea and doing breathing exercises so he's ready to go as soon as the lights go down.
Fire the drummer and welcome the singer back into the band comradery.
See...
i guess i've learned, or i've been lucky (both?), but i'm thinking that most folks account for some amount of 'flakery' in their heads and then hope they're wrong and that they're pleasantly surprised when they are (wrong!). the whole process is a form of entertainment.
but yeah: some folks are too oafish to count on. a new drummer could change things up for the positive, so good luck! 
Being a litigator has taught me the value in being hyper-diligent in meeting commitments/deadlines, and in being hyper-aggressive in holding others to the same standard. Fortunately, in the bands I've played in, my bandmates were always really good about communication and doing what they needed to do in order to move the band forward toward whatever our goals were. God knows if and when I'll play in a band again but, the first hint of flakiness, I'm out. At this stage in life, I cannot see myself having any tolerance at all for that crap.
HAHAHAHA....our drummer shows up early, is always prepared, super funny and nice.
most importantly...he's very tasteful and understands dynamics. RARE, I KNOW!!!
i too have been fortunate to be in reliable bands....i do think i have a good sense of people and usually can see flakey or fake person a mile away.
i am also lucky to be around a lot of musicians in my area. i have the luxury to be more picky with the projects i choose. if there are 3-4 bands in town or not many musicians around, you got to take what you can get.
most importantly...he's very tasteful and understands dynamics. RARE, I KNOW!!!
i too have been fortunate to be in reliable bands....i do think i have a good sense of people and usually can see flakey or fake person a mile away.
i am also lucky to be around a lot of musicians in my area. i have the luxury to be more picky with the projects i choose. if there are 3-4 bands in town or not many musicians around, you got to take what you can get.
I am a lawyer as well. Always on time and prepared. Some of the best musicians I have worked with over the years have been attorneys or judges. I think it has to do with work ethic. Most attorneys know they have to put in the hours to make a living and tend to approach music the same way.
I believe that. And in a slight twist, most of the best programmer's that I have ever hired have been musicians - but never a drummer!
On the other foot there's my BL who spits the dummy every year at least once after ''seeing if it will work'' 6 months out then never confirming the gig until a couple of months out by which time half the band have ''made plans''.
Last edited:
You are obviously not from the South Side. ;-D
I swear I wish I could get some of these clowns into the Daley Center ...
In any group of artistic types, there's bound to be one. Charlie Parker was a notorious flake... But he was Charlie Parker. My tolerance for flakey band mates is directly proportional to their value in the group.
True, but look at jaco at his career end... no one wanted to work with him. Often flakiness is really just a symptom of a mental illness. Mental illness is not a disqualifier for me so long as you are seeking help and following professional advice. But, some illnesses I have come across are so severe that you can’t work with them if they are not heavily medicated.btw... many lawyers I know suffer from serious mental illness and were terrible and unreliable until they got pro help. Some have since become superstars.
So.....twice, drummer says he'll be there...then didn't show! That is disrespectful and totally NOT cool. A pop in the mouth would suffice.
But that's just me!
But that's just me!
Yes, no doubt both Jaco and Bird were nightmares for promoters, producers and musical colleagues.
And yes, flakiness, mental illness and artistic genius often coexist in a person, and it's impossible to tell where one stops and the others begin.
Fortunately most of the flakes I've had to deal weren't geniuses, so it's an easy call to drop them.
I'm with the guy who feigns shock at the idea that musicians are found to be less than reliable.
I'm also with the Charlie Parker guy; but to a point.
What you say here is very true. Unfortunately there are people who can't seem to get a handle on their illness and it ends up costing them everything. You can try hanging in with that for as long as possible when those folks also have otherworldly chops, but if they can't or won't stay on their meds or otherwise take care of themselves over the long haul, it's a bomb waiting to explode. It's tremendously sad when it finally does explode, but how many second chances does a Jaco need when the goal is just to make some good music without the drama? Been there and done that and not really wanting to do it again.
so true. I might add that I married into mental illness unknowingly. However, she got help and sticks to her regimen and ended up being a judge. There were inbetween institutionalizations and many nightmares. She was a worst case scenario at one point. But, great help is now out there. Her sister refuses help and is a lost cause. My daughter fights it. Unfortunately, during jacos time and before there was only abusive treatments that made it worse.
