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Flat wounds.....extra tension?

Craig Williams

Craig Williams

Feb 13, 2019
240
164
63
Thailand
#1
Put a set of La Bella 105's on my P bass and looks like its made a noticeable difference to my neck relief. I had 105 rounds on it and neck nearly flat. Can see a small bow now near the head, even after adj the truss 1/2 turn. I know they are a higher tension (Low tension La Bellas not avail at the moment / I live in Thailand).

Is the tension on FW really that much more? I don't want to put undue stress on the neck. Does the extra tension ease off after a while / use? Any advice / help appreciated.
 
#2
Craig Williams said:
Put a set of La Bella 105's on my P bass and looks like its made a noticeable difference to my neck relief. I had 105 rounds on it and neck nearly flat. Can see a small bow now near the head, even after adj the truss 1/2 turn. I know they are a higher tension (Low tension La Bellas not avail at the moment / I live in Thailand).

Is the tension on FW really that much more? I don't want to put undue stress on the neck. Does the extra tension ease off after a while / use? Any advice / help appreciated.
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Don't be afraid to tighten the truss rod more. That's what it's there for. The extra tension doesn't ease off after a while, but you should give your neck a day to settle in before making any truss rod adjustments, then do what you have to do. Any P bass neck that isn't broken already should be able to take higher tension strings and you should be able to adjust the truss rod accordingly.
 
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#3
JimmyM said:
Don't be afraid to tighten the truss rod more. That's what it's there for. The extra tension doesn't ease off after a while, but you should give your neck a day to settle in before making any truss rod adjustments, then do what you have to do. Any P bass neck that isn't broken already should be able to take higher tension strings and you should be able to adjust the truss rod accordingly.
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Not frightened.... quite used to doing set ups on guitar. Was getting stiff though as if coming to the end of its adjustment. (I adjusted the truss with no string tension). Maybe has another tightening turn left in it. Definitely not broken though and its a USA Fender FWIW. I hear you re giving a day to settle though. Impatience normally gets the better of me there. But I find a day or so can make a difference when loosening the truss. Not so much tightening it. Never seems to gain more back bow after tightening and leaving a day or two. Have you found that it does? And when I say back bow I mean in that tightening direction. I like my necks as near to flat as possible, maybe not possible on a bass? Maybe I should loosen the strings and let it sit for a day? Would that be better?
 
#4
Craig Williams said:
Is the tension on FW really that much more? I don't want to put undue stress on the neck. Does the extra tension ease off after a while / use? Any advice / help appreciated.
Click to expand...

La Bella Flats 45-105 are definitely heavier in tension than a typical set of 45-105 rounds, so it's perfectly normal for the truss rod to need tightening. It's also normal for the neck to need a couple of days to adjust to the new strings. No, the tension won't ease off as such but the neck will (and should) settle eventually.

By the way, can we assume you managed to get the E string of the proper length now? It would be nice if you could post an update for your other thread where you were talking about the E string breaking just to let everyone know.

New La Bella Flat wound low E unraveled and snapped?
 
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#6
Craig Williams said:
Not frightened.... quite used to doing set ups on guitar. Was getting stiff though as if coming to the end of its adjustment. (I adjusted the truss with no string tension). Maybe has another tightening turn left in it. Definitely not broken though and its a USA Fender FWIW. I hear you re giving a day to settle though. Impatience normally gets the better of me there. But I find a day or so can make a difference when loosening the truss. Not so much tightening it. Never seems to gain more back bow after tightening and leaving a day or two. Have you found that it does? And when I say back bow I mean in that tightening direction. I like my necks as near to flat as possible, maybe not possible on a bass? Maybe I should loosen the strings and let it sit for a day? Would that be better?
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No, you want the neck to get used to the tension and settle in before you start to adjust it. Otherwise you'll just have to do it again when it does. IMHO.
 
#7
michael_t said:
La Bella Flats 45-105 are definitely heavier in tension than a typical set of 45-105 rounds, so it's perfectly normal for the truss rod to need tightening. It's also normal for the neck to need a couple of days to adjust to the new strings. No, the tension won't ease off as such but the neck will (and should) settle eventually.

By the way, can we assume you managed to get the E string of the proper length now? It would be nice if you could post an update for your other thread where you were talking about the E string breaking just to let everyone know.

New La Bella Flat wound low E unraveled and snapped?
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This is a different guitar, different set of strings. The other one was my 62RI Jazz and the shop replaced the whole set of strings. I thought I posted the wash up of that? It was simply that they sent extra long by mistake, so of course the flat wound part came in contact with the tuning post, unraveled then snapped. As soon as I got the new E string for the right length no problem at all. Mind you like with this guitar very very high tension needing a lot of truss rod adjustment to suit. The particular bass I am restringing now is a 89 P Bass plus. 22 fret neck. It is a very shallow profile neck and it is not liking these La Bellas at all. I agree with you takes a neck a few days to settle after truss adj but I have seldom found that the neck will straighten out over a couple of days. May settle and get more relief if you are loosening the truss. Just my experience.
 
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#8
JTE said:
Did you pre-tension the neck or are you asking the truss rod to do all the work? Pull the neck to about where you want it and tighten the nut. That way you are not putting as much strain on the nut and the wood.
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Pre tension as in bend it / push it by hand? No thanks. I would do that as a last resort and if I did I would do it on a strip of wood and put blocks / use a clamp very gently. I understand that is required sometimes if the neck is set in a particular way over time but not for every day putting a new set of heavier strings on. If I have to do that for the La Bellas I will be going back to rounds.
 
#9
Craig Williams said:
The particular bass I am restringing now is a 89 P Bass plus. 22 fret neck. It is a very shallow profile neck and it is not liking these La Bellas at all.
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Craig Williams said:
I understand that is required sometimes if the neck is set in a particular way over time but not for every day putting a new set of heavier strings on. If I have to do that for the La Bellas I will be going back to rounds.
Click to expand...

If you like the sound of La Bella flats, you can always try the Low Tension Flats. All the classic sound of La Bella flats but in a much lighter package than the 760FS you have. In fact, the LTFs, at only 135 lbs., have less tension than most light sets of rounds.
 
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#10
Well I have just taken the Flats off and put the round wounds back on. Difference is night and day. The truss rod is obviously doing its job as without tension there is at least 1/8" to 1/4" back bow. With the 105 rounds on it the neck straightens out nicely under tension and I have some saddle adjustment to work with now. Action is great. The necks on these P bass Plus (Boner bass) are wide like a bass but very shallow in depth, like an electric guitar neck really, or mine is. Also as it is a 22 fret neck I imagine it is also longer. I just don't think it has the mass to cope with the extra load of the flats. Well it may well do and with the flats on I got it to a stage where it was comfortable and playable, and it may have been fine but I just wouldn't sleep at nights knowing it was like that. I don't know technically how much tension the FW add but feels like about 50% at a guess. Even the tuners are creaking and groaning trying to get them up to tune. I will wait until my local shop gets the low tension flats back in stock.
 
#11
michael_t said:
If you like the sound of La Bella flats, you can always try the Low Tension Flats. All the classic sound of La Bella flats but in a much lighter package than the 760FS you have. In fact, the LTFs, at only 135 lbs., have less tension than most light sets of rounds.
Click to expand...

I am in Thailand and basically have one supplier / agent. They are presently out of low tension or I would have bought them. Thanks again for your help
 
#14
michael_t said:
Which brand and type of rounds do you have? Are they 45-65-85-105 as well?
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As far as I know yes, they were on it when I bought it.... guy said they were new Daddarios. Whatever they are they are a whole lot better. Not dissing the LaBellas at all. I love the feel and the sound of them. They just don't suit this bass, although hoping the low tension ones will. They seemed to be putting a lot of stress on my Jazz bass neck too, which is also a fairly slight neck. Again really seemed to be pushing the machine heads to get them up to tension as well. You know when you feel like something could break when you are getting near the end of a truss rods limits? Thats how the tuners felt tightening the strings on the Jazz and this Precision plus.
 
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#16
michael_t said:
D'A XL Nickels rounds 45-105 are around 175 lbs. in total tension. Based on my past experience with various sets of rounds and flats, my best guesstimate for the LB Flats 45-105 would be roughly 195 - 200 lbs.
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Dunno mate, they didn't feel good on my bass mechanically anyway. Will be great to get hold of some low tension ones when they are back in stock. I believe they are even lower tension than standard rounds.
 
#18
Sam Dingle said:
Actually talked to Sean Hurley once about it and he found the 104-43 set was the best flatwound set that reminded him of 105-45 rounds. That's what he sticks with because of the feel
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Funny Sean Hurley story...was at the airport once talking to a lady who saw my bass case and asked if I was in a famous band. I told her I just got back from a gig with Bowzer. She says, "Oh, that must be pretty lucrative."

I replied, "It is for Bowzer."

Then she told me she knows Sean's family and talked to him once about working with John Mayer. She said she told him the same thing she said to me, "Oh, that must be pretty lucrative."

His reply? "It is for John."

:D
 
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#20
Craig Williams said:
Pre tension as in bend it / push it by hand? No thanks. I would do that as a last resort and if I did I would do it on a strip of wood and put blocks / use a clamp very gently. I understand that is required sometimes if the neck is set in a particular way over time but not for every day putting a new set of heavier strings on. If I have to do that for the La Bellas I will be going back to rounds.
Click to expand...
No, you have the bottom of the bass on the floor and cradle the neck between your legs. You manually push the headstock back and tighten the rod. This prevents the rod from having to do the heavy lifting of moving the neck against the string tension. It can be helpful to have a person assist you. If the rod access is at the heel it is harder. The string tension could be backed way off and then the rod adjusted if that's the case.
 

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