"Flat wounds in black plastic" and string ID (Air)

[Just Wrong]

I was reading an interview with Nicolas Godin from Air on the gear he used for their first album, Moon Safari. He says he used a Hofner with "flat wound strings in black plastic." I assume he means tape wounds, since some people call them flats and, well, they're in "black plastic," but the plastic thing is throwing me off. Do you think he's talking about tape or was there ever a plastic bass string?

I was also hoping someone could ID the string he's using in this video (picture below). They sound like flats, but I can't place the silk colour. Might it's the lightning, but they look too bright to be Chromes. GHS are purple and La Bella 760F MUS are red. They sort of look like Fenders, but Fenders don't come in short/medium scale, and I doubt many people tried to string their Mustangs with Fender flats before the JMJ came out. Not Dunlop, not TI. Maybe something by Ernie Ball?

 

[ardgedee]

He's probably referring to taped or wrapped strings. Pyramid in Germany makes a few different sets, he might be using them since he's in Europe and it sounds like he prefers short scale basses.

There aren't any all-plastic electric bass strings, since they have to have magnetic material to be sensed by the pickups. There are nonmetallic strings for ultra-short-scale basses with piezo bridges, like Kala ukes.

 

[Just Wrong]

He's probably referring to taped or wrapped strings. Pyramid in Germany makes a few different sets, he might be using them since he's in Europe and it sounds like he prefers short scale basses.

There aren't any all-plastic electric bass strings, since they have to have magnetic material to be sensed by the pickups. There are nonmetallic strings for ultra-short-scale basses with piezo bridges, like Kala ukes.

Yeah, after I wrote the post I realized I assume he was using Pyramids because he’s in Europe and it’s a Hofner, but maybe he was using La Bella, which do feel like plastic.

 

[michael_t]

Regarding the flats with blue silk on the Mustang...

As far as I know, the medium scale and the short scale sets of the Rotosound Jazz 77 Flats come with blue silk, while the long scale set comes with red silk. Again, it would make sense if he is based in Europe.

 

[Peteyboy]

As English is not his 1st language I'm gonna assume he meant tapewounds.

 

[JimmyO]

Related but not, I was able to snag both Air releases on record store day this weekend, both being from the Moon Safari album, one is collection of demos and live performances, the other is a remix of the entire album by Vegyn. Both are amazing!

And yes, on topic, I would presume that the language difference is why he said “plastic” instead of vinyl or tapewound. Tapewound short scale is exactly how I would describe the bass tone on that album.

 

[Just Wrong]

Regarding the flats with blue silk on the Mustang...

As far as I know, the medium scale and the short scale sets of the Rotosound Jazz 77 Flats come with blue silk, while the long scale set comes with red silk. Again, it would make sense if he is based in Europe.

I’ll have to read about those… I tried a set of Rotos maybe 15 years ago. Jaco used them, cool. They were terribly stiff and rough, so I never gave the brand another chance.

 

[kodiakblair]

Yeah, after I wrote the post I realized I assume he was using Pyramids because he’s in Europe

Rotosound are in Europe, their TruBass tapes are available in short scale; they have gold silks so look pretty bright.

Picato. Also European, they did tapes in short scale. Status Hot Wire, yet another short scale tape produced in Europe.


Had no problem buying the Rotos or Picatos in 80's/90's Europe, same can't be said for US tapes.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I don't think it matters much that he's based in Europe. The three best selling string brands in Europe BY FAR are D'Addario, Ernie Ball and Elixir, followed by Rotosound and GHS. Pyramid are WAY down the list.

You can walk into pretty much any guitar store in Europe and you can be almost certain that they have D'Addario, Elixir and Ernie Ball. Larger stores will most likely also have GHS and/or Rotosound and MAYBE Thomastik. But Pyramid? I don't think I've ever seen Pyramid strings inside a brick and mortar guitar store, and I'm based in Europe. I order Pyramids online.

Having said that, it does make sense that the "black plastic" strings on a Höfner could be Pyramid tapewounds. If nothing else, because the winding length of Pyramid short scale tapewounds&flats will fit Höfners. With many other brands you will most likely need medium scale strings on a Höfner.

As for the flats in the video.... I have no idea.

michael_t is usually right about silk colors though, so until proven otherwise I would say Rotos. In the start of the video they sound a bit softer that Rotos, but towards the end of the video, when he digs in a bit harder, there's something in the mids that remind me very much of Rotos. They don't sound quite as bright as Rotos, but that could be explained by a number of reasons. They could be old, worn Rotos, the tone might be rolled off a bit (although it doesn't really sound like it's rolled off much) or it could be something in his signal chain.

Btw, the suggestion that not many people used flats on Mustangs before the JMJ is quite simply wrong.

 

[markjazzbassist]

probably means pyramid tapewounds. HOWEVER, i am a large AIR fan and Godin fan, and in this video the hofner is just regular flatwounds and it sounds exactly the same as the record.

 

[Just Wrong]

Btw, the suggestion that not many people used flats on Mustangs before the JMJ is quite simply wrong.

I meant I don't think many people tried Fender flatwounds, at least the current version, which only come in long scale, on their Mustangs before the JMJ.

 

[Just Wrong]

probably means pyramid tapewounds. HOWEVER, i am a large AIR fan and Godin fan, and in this video the hofner is just regular flatwounds and it sounds exactly the same as the record.

Such a great tone.

Here’s the interview and the relevant part:

Höfner Club

For the ‘60s sounds, it was a ‘60s Höfner violin bass with flatwound strings in black plastic. It belonged to Nicolas Dufournet who was the bassist for Oui Oui—an old band from Versailles, with Michel Gondry as the drummer.

This bass is the best one I’ve ever played. After I had to give it back to Nicolas Dufournet, I bought a ‘61 https://reverb.com/ca/news/nicolas-godin-from-air-on-the-gear-used-in-moon-safari with the same pickups and same luthier work to try and get the same feel but without the violin shape because I didn’t want to be copying McCartney if I took it to concert. It wasn’t as good in the end, even if I did record some great tracks with it.

 

[markjazzbassist]

Here’s the interview and the relevant part:

Höfner Club

For the ‘60s sounds, it was a ‘60s Höfner violin bass with flatwound strings in black plastic. It belonged to Nicolas Dufournet who was the bassist for Oui Oui—an old band from Versailles, with Michel Gondry as the drummer.

This bass is the best one I’ve ever played. After I had to give it back to Nicolas Dufournet, I bought a ‘61 https://reverb.com/ca/news/nicolas-godin-from-air-on-the-gear-used-in-moon-safari with the same pickups and same luthier work to try and get the same feel but without the violin shape because I didn’t want to be copying McCartney if I took it to concert. It wasn’t as good in the end, even if I did record some great tracks with it.

interesting although some inaccuracies in the interview. his hofner club bass isn't a 61 (maybe the hofner violin bass he borrowed is the 61?), they were released in 1965, also his pickup surrounds mean his is a 66. i also have a vintage hofner club bass (mine is a 65 with the smaller pickup surrounds). i've had the pyramid flatwounds on my hofner and pyramid and rotosound nylon tapewounds on my hofner. i think if you're playing with a pick like he does you can get similar sounds with the flats or tapes. the pick is doing most of the work do to the attack and clickiness of the pick.

 

[Just Wrong]

interesting although some inaccuracies in the interview. his hofner club bass isn't a 61 (maybe the hofner violin bass he borrowed is the 61?), they were released in 1965, also his pickup surrounds mean his is a 66. i also have a vintage hofner club bass (mine is a 65 with the smaller pickup surrounds). i've had the pyramid flatwounds on my hofner and pyramid and rotosound nylon tapewounds on my hofner. i think if you're playing with a pick like he does you can get similar sounds with the flats or tapes. the pick is doing most of the work do to the attack and clickiness of the pick.

Love the tone -- actually more than the Mustang -- but don't think I could rock the look

 

[logdrum]

Nylon is plastic.

All tapewounds are nylon tape around a metal core. The La Bella tapes almost look fused but they are flat strands. Just get a a sharp razor and make a cut lengthwise. You will see it unravel specially if it is under tension

 

[HaphAsSard]

As for the flats in the video.... I have no idea.

michael_t is usually right about silk colors though, so until proven otherwise I would say Rotos. In the start of the video they sound a bit softer that Rotos, but towards the end of the video, when he digs in a bit harder, there's something in the mids that remind me very much of Rotos. They don't sound quite as bright as Rotos, but that could be explained by a number of reasons. They could be old, worn Rotos, the tone might be rolled off a bit (although it doesn't really sound like it's rolled off much) or it could be something in his signal chain.

Short- and medium scale Rotosound Jazz Bass 77 are closer to the G and D strings from their long-scale sets than to the long-scale E and A: they're much smoother than the latter, and not nearly as bright, even out of the box.

 

[Just Wrong]

Nylon is plastic.

All tapewounds are nylon tape around a metal core. The La Bella tapes almost look fused but they are flat strands. Just get a a sharp razor and make a cut lengthwise. You will see it unravel specially if it is under tension

Took 15 replies for someone to point that out I always thought nylon was some sort of fabric...

 

[Just Wrong]

I don't think it matters much that he's based in Europe. The three best selling string brands in Europe BY FAR are D'Addario, Ernie Ball and Elixir, followed by Rotosound and GHS. Pyramid are WAY down the list.

You can walk into pretty much any guitar store in Europe and you can be almost certain that they have D'Addario, Elixir and Ernie Ball. Larger stores will most likely also have GHS and/or Rotosound and MAYBE Thomastik. But Pyramid? I don't think I've ever seen Pyramid strings inside a brick and mortar guitar store, and I'm based in Europe. I order Pyramids online.

Having said that, it does make sense that the "black plastic" strings on a Höfner could be Pyramid tapewounds. If nothing else, because the winding length of Pyramid short scale tapewounds&flats will fit Höfners. With many other brands you will most likely need medium scale strings on a Höfner.

As for the flats in the video.... I have no idea.

michael_t is usually right about silk colors though, so until proven otherwise I would say Rotos. In the start of the video they sound a bit softer that Rotos, but towards the end of the video, when he digs in a bit harder, there's something in the mids that remind me very much of Rotos. They don't sound quite as bright as Rotos, but that could be explained by a number of reasons. They could be old, worn Rotos, the tone might be rolled off a bit (although it doesn't really sound like it's rolled off much) or it could be something in his signal chain.

Btw, the suggestion that not many people used flats on Mustangs before the JMJ is quite simply wrong.

Sort of surprised about Elixir. I wouldn't have thought. Then again, I don't really look at strings in brick and mortar music stores.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

The only ‘flatwounds’ under ‘plastic’ are the GHS Tapes BEAD. The G has a round wound under the tape. At least that is the current tapewound state of play amongst the brands. So did GHS make tapewounds in the late 90’s? Or some other manufacturer do flatwounds under nylon back then?

 

[Just Wrong]

The only ‘flatwounds’ under ‘plastic’ are the GHS Tapes BEAD. The G has a round wound under the tape. At least that is the current tapewound state of play amongst the brands. So did GHS make tapewounds in the late 90’s? Or some other manufacturer do flatwounds under nylon back then?

Some people call nylons flats because they’re not ribbed like rounds. I don’t think he meant flats under the nylon.