Flats That Behave Like Rounds

[TanglefooT1959]

Have you considered trying something like GHS Pressurewound?

I tried the pressure-wounds but went back to D'addario Half-rounds.

 

[CenTexThumper]

So the D'Addario says. You think they live up to the ad copy? They don't seem to get much love here.

It is what it is. I play them on my Precision PJ 4 and Jazz Active 5. I have for quite a while. Works for me. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Ric5]

I want to give flatwounds another shot.

I would like a flatwound that behaves like a roundwound, preferably with a standard gauge.

I have tried Chromes and 9050s in the past and not liked either, finding them too stiff. Same problem with GHS Precision flats & La Bella Deep Talkin flats.

Has anyone tried or compared DR Legend flats, Dunlop flats or Ernie Ball Cobalt flats? Any other flats that might be worth checking out which behave like rounds?

rounds are rounds and flats are flats

 

[Isaac J]

I've got the Ernie Ball cobalt flats on my Jazz and Fender 9050ML on my fretless. The cobalts have lower tension, much closer to rounds, and they do have a lot more clarity. I believe this is possible as Ernie Ball flats are actually thin-gauge rounds with a ribbon applied on top (Trojan Horse style?).

One thing to note about the Ernie Balls, it may have been due to the guy who strung them, but the actual ribbon doesn't fully touch together, unlike Fenders. By that I mean there are tiny gaps between the ribbon, making them slightly less smooth than Fender flats.

 

[andruca]

Great information in this thread.

Just this last weekend I tried La Bella LTFs on my Frankenkit bass (originally a cheap 4 string P kit -from thomann- build, today a 5 string reverse P+J fretless -still 16mm of spacing-).

I hadn't played fretless for 16 years and I don't remember flats back then ever feeling remotely as NICE as these ones (that's why I used to have roundwounds on, I also lived in Argentina back then and it was HARD to get any flatwounds, much less any decent ones for a remotely affordable price). I had been reading some before getting them, wasn't up for the usual stiff flats feel at all. These are softer than even some roundwounds I've used, while sounding warm and broken in out of the package. Lovely, but even tho' they play soft, they still don't behave like rounds in that they don't have that ringing sustain rounds have. Then again, I don't need that for my fretless which I approach as a whole new instrument (I play both with VERY different techniques), so there's usually nothing to miss from the fretted+rounds paradigm when I'm playing fretless+flats.

 

[Zooberwerx]

I just put a set of the LaBella LTF's on a Carvin fiver but, in retrospect, I wish I had trial'd the Dunlops (light gauge) instead.

Riis

 

[Michael Jewels]

How do these compare then to the TI flats or La Bella LTF? I've played both but never Cobalt flats. Any comparison would be great.

Compared to most other flatwounds, they feel smoother, but sticky when you first put them on.

The flats I have experience with are:
Fender 9050,
LaBella Deep Talkin Bass 760
Rotosound 77

I liked them all, and they all had different qualities about them, but it's been so long since I used them, I can't give an accurate review of them.

I just know that I like the Ernie Ball Cobalts the best.

As I mentioned, I just had a set put on my Stingray during a set up, and they make my Stingray sound so much better, as if that's possible.

I'll give a review after I have more playing time with them.

I've also used the James Jamerson bridge cable support set and did not like them at all.

I'll write a post on that later.

Those strings scared me!

Mike

 

[tekhedd]

So the D'Addario says. You think they live up to the ad copy? They don't seem to get much love here.

Half rounds: IME they sound like bad, cheap roundwounds; they don't sustain the highs very well like good rounds, don't have mids like good "dull rounds", and don't have the cool attack of flats. Feel-wise, because they're cut-in-half instead of ground down, the sharp edges form a 90 degree angle, so when the flex, the gaps expose the edge, and they grate the skin of my fingers. "Half rounds" are the worst of both worlds.

I used to like "ground rounds", which have similar (better) tonal characteristics, but can (when well manufactured) be more comfortable to play. I actually used to like the quarter-ground version best, as they were basically a flattened round string. However...as far as I can tell nobody's making them any more, presumably because nobody is buying them, or maybe they're just harder to make.

 

[mattj1stc]

I don't want to cause too much of a sidebar, but isn't tension virtually identical? D'addario lists their tensions and the round & flats are pretty close. The theory is that the "deadspace" from the rounds over a core allows for greater perceived feeling of slack (but the tension is still almost identical).

I think that it varies a bit based on string thickness, design, core, materials, etc. However, the majority of strings are made from similar materials and have similar designs, so I think you may be correct in the sense that (excluding tape wound strings) two strings of the same thickness, stretched over the same distance and tuned to the same note should have somewhat similar tensions. Where there's a bit of a divide would be on the Jamerson and Harris flats, which are notably thicker than average strings, so there's a bit more tension in them.

 

[JRA]

I would like a flatwound that behaves like a roundwound

Looks like I'll be sticking with rounds or pressurewounds... I don't think the string I want exists.

well, now you know! ...better luck with your rounds!

 

[Rolling Thunder]

I think that it varies a bit based on string thickness, design, core, materials, etc. However, the majority of strings are made from similar materials and have similar designs, so I think you may be correct in the sense that (excluding tape wound strings) two strings of the same thickness, stretched over the same distance and tuned to the same note should have somewhat similar tensions. Where there's a bit of a divide would be on the Jamerson and Harris flats, which are notably thicker than average strings, so there's a bit more tension in them.

Yeah, I've heard Jamerson used La Bella "bridge cables". Its easier to see from a cross section where the perceived increase in tension could come from looking at this pic. It seems it could be more how the string reacts to itself when strummed/plucked/slapped.

 

[MrLenny1]

I've gone that route a few times and no flats had a RW feel or
sound to them. I use RW most of the time. Flats on a few gigs.

 

[mattj1stc]

Yeah, I've heard Jamerson used La Bella "bridge cables". Its easier to see from a cross section where the perceived increase in tension could come from looking at this pic. It seems it could be more how the string reacts to itself when strummed/plucked/slapped.

View attachment 3553738

There are some inherent differences based on the outer string (rounds vs. flats, with rounds being brighter/zingier). I may have the history wrong, but I believe that all bass strings were flats until John Entwistle from the Who had Roto make him some rounds back in the 60s. After the 70s, I believe that most default/factory/stock strings became rounds.

The Jamersons are a throwback to the old designs. They are definitely thicker than average, so they are a little more tension. They're also pretty stiff, but they sound really wonderful. Definitely an old school sound that's great with a P bass. Here are the official sizes.

 

[e-flat]

Great information in this thread.

Just this last weekend I tried La Bella LTFs on my Frankenkit bass (originally a cheap 4 string P kit -from thomann- build, today a 5 string reverse P+J fretless -still 16mm of spacing-).

I hadn't played fretless for 16 years and I don't remember flats back then ever feeling remotely as NICE as these ones (that's why I used to have roundwounds on, I also lived in Argentina back then and it was HARD to get any flatwounds, much less any decent ones for a remotely affordable price). I had been reading some before getting them, wasn't up for the usual stiff flats feel at all. These are softer than even some roundwounds I've used, while sounding warm and broken in out of the package. Lovely, but even tho' they play soft, they still don't behave like rounds in that they don't have that ringing sustain rounds have. Then again, I don't need that for my fretless which I approach as a whole new instrument (I play both with VERY different techniques), so there's usually nothing to miss from the fretted+rounds paradigm when I'm playing fretless+flats.

Dude, I REALLY liked the LTFs on a fretless Jazz I used to own. Set up with Dimarzio Model J pickups that bass sounded GREAT> Wish I still had it!

 

[Copperhead]

Roto 77's bridge the gap for me.

 

[SunByrne]

Half rounds: IME they sound like bad, cheap roundwounds; they don't sustain the highs very well like good rounds, don't have mids like good "dull rounds", and don't have the cool attack of flats. Feel-wise, because they're cut-in-half instead of ground down, the sharp edges form a 90 degree angle, so when the flex, the gaps expose the edge, and they grate the skin of my fingers. "Half rounds" are the worst of both worlds.

Bummer. I got the sense they were rather going for the best of both worlds. I'm still pretty new to all this and like I would guess many, I like the feel of flats but I like the tone of rounds much better, so I was hoping this would be the way to get both. Bummer that it's neither.

I used to like "ground rounds", which have similar (better) tonal characteristics, but can (when well manufactured) be more comfortable to play. I actually used to like the quarter-ground version best, as they were basically a flattened round string. However...as far as I can tell nobody's making them any more, presumably because nobody is buying them, or maybe they're just harder to make.

Yep, that sounds like what I was hoping for. Too bad it's a phantom.

 

[tekhedd]

Bummer. I got the sense they were rather going for the best of both worlds.

Well, they tend to be reasonably priced. It's might be worth a try, who knows? Maybe you'll love them and totally disagree with everything I said here. Might as well try a few sets of ground rounds and see?

Do they still make the pressure wounds? Those were also...interesting.

All of the ground or pressure wound strings have unusual overtones, so it takes some getting used to, but they're not necessarily bad. I do particularly hate half rounds though because of the finger irritation--maybe some manufacturer has a cure for that as well though?

Well good luck and please post the results of any experiments!

 

[SunByrne]

Well, they tend to be reasonably priced. It's might be worth a try, who knows? Maybe you'll love them and totally disagree with everything I said here. Might as well try a few sets of ground rounds and see?

Do they still make the pressure wounds? Those were also...interesting.

All of the ground or pressure wound strings have unusual overtones, so it takes some getting used to, but they're not necessarily bad. I do particularly hate half rounds though because of the finger irritation--maybe some manufacturer has a cure for that as well though?

Well good luck and please post the results of any experiments!

Work's busy these days but in December I'll have more time to experiment with strings. Should be fun. I'll be happy to report results.

D'Addario makes half rounds... GHS makes ground wounds... what else should I look into?

 

[Stan_da_man]

Halfrounds are the worst strings ever invented.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Halfrounds are the worst strings ever invented.

Nah, this: