Flatwound strings with the least tension in *relative* numbers

[Phaidrus]

Physics being physics, there would almost certainly be a correlation.


I’ve found (and I quote other board denizens here, but agree wholeheartedly) that using different strings can transform an instrument - both sonically and feel-wise. So the more knowledge of the data available, and the more players can correlate the physical data to their own subjective feel/sound evaluations and share those evaluations, the easier it will be for others to make suitable string choices without burning hundred$ (or in the case of upright, perhaps thousand$) of dollars in their quest for the strings that feel and sound right to them and their musical cohorts.

Indeed. One of my Pbasses (well, I only have two) is strung with Dunlop flats 45105, the tension of which is relatively low but is also unknown (no data published). If I were to change to, say, Markbass flats 45105 or GHS flats 45105, which are 183lbs and 184.6lbs respectively, there is no way knowing in advance whether this would mean more or less tension than the Dunlops, which makes spending €50 or thereabout on a new set of flats a gamble. Not to speak of the ruined silks with all that stringing and restringing

 

[Jon Moody]

If someone wants to send me segments of strings I can weigh them on a calibrated precision scale and measure the length, yielding the unit weight of the string. From that you can calculate the tension since all that is needed is scale length, tuning frequency and unit weight. The method could be tested by checking against the published D'Addario data.

Oh, I'm aware; I created the GHS Strings Tension Chart. That's why it would be easier for the manufacturer to do it themselves.

I have found, weighing old and new strings, that the tension doesn't really change all that much. It DOES have an affect, but it's slight. And, given that older strings tend to stretch a bit more and become more flexible, it tends to even out a bit.

 

[skycruiser]

Oh, I'm aware; I created the GHS Strings Tension Chart. That's why it would be easier for the manufacturer to do it themselves.

I have found, weighing old and new strings, that the tension doesn't really change all that much. It DOES have an affect, but it's slight. And, given that older strings tend to stretch a bit more and become more flexible, it tends to even out a bit.

Ha, I didn't notice I was talking to a GHS rep until after I responded. But the comment was a general one, that if we want to collect data for strings that aren't published I would be happy to make the measurements.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I don't have as much experience and don't detune either but I do like the idea of a medium gauge (45105) set of flats with low tension and high flexibility. So far the closest to that I've come across are the Dunlop flats but wouldn't mind still less tension.

I have TI flats on all of my electric basses. I love them, but several TBers have complained that they are too flexible for their tastes.

 

[Phaidrus]

I have TI flats on all of my electric basses. I love them, but several TBers have complained that they are too flexible for their tastes.

Too flexible is probably almost impossible in my case. It's rather their thin gauge, as opposed to 45105, that makes me feel uncertain about them.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Too flexible is probably almost impossible in my case. It's rather their thin gauge, as opposed to 45105, that makes me feel uncertain about them.

What is your concern? How might it relate to string gauge?

 

[g-dude]

Too flexible is probably almost impossible in my case. It's rather their thin gauge, as opposed to 45105, that makes me feel uncertain about them.

I’ll tell you this much - you’ll play faster once you get used to them. You definitely need to adjust truss rod and all that, and will need to adapt your right hand touch.

Still, when you play them, you can tell that it’s a company that makes very high quality orchestral strings.

 

[Phaidrus]

What is your concern? How might it relate to string gauge?

This Pbass I have dedicated exclusively to reggae-dub and so far thinner strings don't have the required fatness and authority for the job. Could be due to lack of experience on my part, of course.

 

[Phaidrus]

I’ll tell you this much - you’ll play faster once you get used to them. You definitely need to adjust truss rod and all that, and will need to adapt your right hand touch.

Still, when you play them, you can tell that it’s a company that makes very high quality orchestral strings.

With this particular Pbass, dedicated to reggae-dub as mentioned above, I in fact try to play slower rather than faster. To get in the zone. But jokes aside, I have the - perhaps erroneous - impression that to nail the authority required for the relatively few notes of a reggae bassline strings must be of adequate gauge, namely not thinner than 45105.

 

[g-dude]

With this particular Pbass, dedicated to reggae-dub as mentioned above, I in fact try to play slower rather than faster. To get in the zone. But jokes aside, I have the - perhaps erroneous - impression that to nail the authority required for the relatively few notes of a reggae bassline strings must be of adequate gauge, namely not thinner than 45105.

I don’t think it’d make a difference honestly.

I’m not discounting string gauge, I mean it definitely changes things on the electric guitar when you go from 8s to 15s for the high E string...but I think between breaking in the strings, some nice oil build up, and some EQ, you’ll get the sound you need.

 

[Phaidrus]

I don’t think it’d make a difference honestly.

I’m not discounting string gauge, I mean it definitely changes things on the electric guitar when you go from 8s to 15s for the high E string...but I think between breaking in the strings, some nice oil build up, and some EQ, you’ll get the sound you need.

Despite my reservations as regards gauge size, the TIs are indeed on my flats list when I'm done with the Dunlops, which at the moment I find to be pretty good. But this may change. You know how it goes with strings, one day you're too frustrated with what you hear, probably due to your own playing, and the strings that happen to be on the bass are the usual scapegoat.

 

[DCCat]

That raises the question as to how you could objectively compare something like stiffness/pliability. So many things come into play with this, as neck relief, string height, etc.. will all add/remove stiffness. And we're not even getting into the variables of the person playing the bass, and how they approach it.

To at least get comparative data on this and remove some of the variables, it seems that a standard testing rig could be defined that would tune a string to standard pitch and apply a known force at the mid-point of the string to see how far the string deflects. Yes, actual perceived stiffness will still vary from bass to bass and with different setups, but such a testing rig should at least provide useful comparison data.

 

[Jon Moody]

To at least get comparative data on this and remove some of the variables, it seems that a standard testing rig could be defined that would tune a string to standard pitch and apply a known force at the mid-point of the string to see how far the string deflects. Yes, actual perceived stiffness will still vary from bass to bass and with different setups, but such a testing rig should at least provide useful comparison data.

I'd be interested in seeing someone try to do this, because the biggest variable that the testing rig won't be able to replicate is the right hand of the person playing. It's gonna be different across the board.

 

[DeepHz]

But aren't they too thin gauge wise?

Not for my taste

 

[Jazzdogg]

With this particular Pbass, dedicated to reggae-dub as mentioned above, I in fact try to play slower rather than faster. To get in the zone. But jokes aside, I have the - perhaps erroneous - impression that to nail the authority required for the relatively few notes of a reggae bassline strings must be of adequate gauge, namely not thinner than 45105.

Not trying to be a troll, but your string gauge argument reminds me of the old days when folks used to claim that larger diameter loudspeakers generated more authoritative bass than smaller speakers.

My primary reasons for buying a certain string is the way they sound and feel under MY hands. All I can say is, if you try the TI strings - you may like them, and you may not.

 

[Phaidrus]

Not trying to be a troll, but your string gauge argument reminds me of the old days when folks used to claim that larger diameter loudspeakers generated more authoritative bass than smaller speakers.

My primary reasons for buying a certain string is the way they sound and feel under MY hands. All I can say is, if you try the TI strings - you may like them, and you may not.

They are certainly on my to-do list!

 

[RichardLEntrup]

I use Pyramid Golds; here’s a sample (use headphones). I’m using a thicker Dunlop pick with smoother edges.

 

[Phaidrus]

I use Pyramid Golds; here’s a sample (use headphones). I’m using a thicker Dunlop pick with smoother edges.

Very good! I also have a set of 45105 Pyramid Gold flats but I find their tension too high and their cable like rigidity quite alienating. Mine have purple silks though.

 

[GoesThump]

I'd be interested in seeing someone try to do this, because the biggest variable that the testing rig won't be able to replicate is the right hand of the person playing. It's gonna be different across the board.

True, however, if I'm understanding DCCat correctly, the idea is to get some sort of number to the effect of "it takes this many kg of force to displace the string by this many mm." (or lbs / inches if you prefer.) Once that was known, a relative ordering of various strings could be established.

Of course, as Jon Moody points out, that wouldn't mean much on its own, but once a player had played a particular string w/a rating of "X", would they not be able to gauge the relative stiffness of other strings rated w/the same standard?

GT

 

[DCCat]

True, however, if I'm understanding DCCat correctly, the idea is to get some sort of number to the effect of "it takes this many kg of force to displace the string by this many mm." (or lbs / inches if you prefer.) Once that was known, a relative ordering of various strings could be established.

Correct, that's the concept. It should provide an objective metric of string flexibility that would offer a useful basis for comparison. The practical relevance of that metric to perceived stiffness/flexibility in the context of a particular bass/setup or a particular player's playing style may vary, but it would still be useful data, in the same way that gauge and tension data is useful (actually, I'd argue it would be more useful because it would be an actual performance metric -- a measure of how the string performs under stress).