Definately!
Yup - that's the best explanation I've seen.
Thanks, Mr. Johnson -
Joe
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floating thumb techniqe
- Thread starter Torvus
- Start date
Yup - that's the best explanation I've seen.
Thanks, Mr. Johnson -
Joe
This technique slows me down kinda, but then I realize it does help a lot when you need to mute the other strings so you dont get the sound in the background of the previous played string.
I tried to use it for a while but then I gave up. Lame I guess but I am not skilled.
I tried to use it for a while but then I gave up. Lame I guess but I am not skilled.
Hello everyone. This is an excellent thread, I should have come to TB a long time ago.
I have a problem to pose you all, to see what ideas some of you may have.
First I'll describe my technique, but I think this problem is applicable to anyone using 5 strings or more.
I've been playing fixed anchor since I started, until about half a year ago when I read a website explaining movable anchor. Realizing how much better this could be, I started learning it. The movable anchor I use is 2 strings below the string I am playing because my plucking finger will automatically mute the string directly below it:
When playing B and E strings thumb is on pickup.
When playing A string thumb is on B string.
When playing D and G strings thumb is on E string, but also touching and muting B string.
Moving my thumb in this way not only allows me to mute, but also allows me to be plucking with my fingers approximately perpendicular to the strings (ie my fingers are "pointing" at the body of the bass) no matter what string I am playing. In my opinion this gives the clearest possible sound, especially when multiple notes are played rapidly on the same string.
From looking at my technique you'll notice two things.
First, I use the pickup as an anchor, so this isn't even close to floating technique. However, I've found over time (and as I get used to a moving thumb) that sometimes when there is alot of string jumping, for instance from the D to the E string, that when I hit the lower string I don't bother place my thumb back onto its anchor ... so my movable anchor appears to be morphing into the floating thumb as time goes on ... it just feels natural I guess.
However as I like to play metal (amongst other things of course) I still feel that I need an anchor to get the power that I want for the B, E, and A strings. But I'm not too sure if this is what I really want in terms of sound ... perhaps it is better to just turn up my amp and play softer, even in metal. I haven't explored this nearly enough, but its a very important issue, a competent bass player should know what technique and set up are best for performing the seemingly impossible task of making the bass clear and hearable amidst distorted guitars and an insane drummer with two bass drums or a double pedal, without taking away from the music.
Anyway, the second thing you'll notice is that I keep my thumb in the same position while plucking both the D and G strings. This is where I will now address the main question in this post. The reason I do this is because I have found that, when you are amplified at a reasonable volume, it becomes absolutely necessary to be muting the B string (and even E string) at all times except when you're playing it, or else it will just naturally start to vibrate/ring a bit.
So the problem for me becomes, how do I mute the B, E, and A strings (and D string, but I've already explained that it is muted by my plucking fingers) while I'm playing the G?
So far, I haven't come up with an answer, so I don't. I choose what seems to be the least bad option: I don't mute the A string with my plucking hand, and try to mute it with the fretting hand instead.
Now I can think of 3 alternative solutions to this problem, but none of them seem satisfactory to me (or are even impossible for my playing style):
1: Mute the B, E, and A string with the thumb.
It is fairly easy for me to kind of stick my thumb between the B and E strings and mute them both. I could easily do this between the E and A strings instead, and then move my hand a bit closer to the body of the bass so that the part just past the knuckle of my thumb mutes the B string. The problem I have with this is that moving my hand closer to the bass changes the angle of my fingers plucking the G string, making them "less than perpendicular" to the strings (even with the curved fingers). This not only gives a different sound than on other strings but is damned uncomfortable when you're used to always having it the other way.
2: Use the ring or pinky as a second muting "appendix".
This is a great solution, and I recommend it to most bass players, since you can also use this "appendix" placed on the string very close to the bridge to give a "palm muted" kind of sound. Excellent as it may be, it will not do for me, as I use all four fingers for plucking (always using the pattern: index middle ring pinky i m r p i m r p, and yes, I can start the pattern with any finger, it doesn't matter). I'm really not willing to sacrifice my fourth finger so that I can use it for muting, 3 fingers would feel really weird to me.
3: Mute with palm.
Again this is a great solution for anyone that doesn't use all 4 fingers for plucking purposes. If you're muting with the palm (well, the part of the hand close to the wrist) you're going to have to "reach" further to pluck with the fingers that are further from the wrist/palm (ie the index and middle) than with the fingers that are closer (pinky and ring). Again, this is inconsistent and uncomfortable.
Out of my technique and the 3 alternatives, which do you prefer, and which do you recommend (keeping in mind that #2 #3 are not an options for me)? Can you think of any more ways to do it, or any combination of these that might work?
I'm willing to try just about anything, I'd really like to be able to free up the fretting hand from all muting responsibility. This is not only because I want as much freedom/mobility with this hand as possible, it is also because when you mute with the fretting hand, you have to pay close attention to where you mute so that you don't "partially mute" by hitting a part of the string that gives a harmonic. The thumb is big enough to not allow harmonics to ring no matter where you mute (except maybe on the B).
Also note that I already hold my bass high and I keep it at about a 45 degree angle, so recommending this make playing more comfortable will not help.
Well that's my big rant. I saw an intelligent conversation going on here so I thought I'd add my bit. On my 4 string there is no problem, I just mute the E and A with the thumb, but having to mute the B string really makes it ALOT more complex.
I just hate to think what you 6 and 7 stringers have to do to get everyone (that is, the strings) to shut up.
I have a problem to pose you all, to see what ideas some of you may have.
First I'll describe my technique, but I think this problem is applicable to anyone using 5 strings or more.
I've been playing fixed anchor since I started, until about half a year ago when I read a website explaining movable anchor. Realizing how much better this could be, I started learning it. The movable anchor I use is 2 strings below the string I am playing because my plucking finger will automatically mute the string directly below it:
When playing B and E strings thumb is on pickup.
When playing A string thumb is on B string.
When playing D and G strings thumb is on E string, but also touching and muting B string.
Moving my thumb in this way not only allows me to mute, but also allows me to be plucking with my fingers approximately perpendicular to the strings (ie my fingers are "pointing" at the body of the bass) no matter what string I am playing. In my opinion this gives the clearest possible sound, especially when multiple notes are played rapidly on the same string.
From looking at my technique you'll notice two things.
First, I use the pickup as an anchor, so this isn't even close to floating technique. However, I've found over time (and as I get used to a moving thumb) that sometimes when there is alot of string jumping, for instance from the D to the E string, that when I hit the lower string I don't bother place my thumb back onto its anchor ... so my movable anchor appears to be morphing into the floating thumb as time goes on ... it just feels natural I guess.
However as I like to play metal (amongst other things of course) I still feel that I need an anchor to get the power that I want for the B, E, and A strings. But I'm not too sure if this is what I really want in terms of sound ... perhaps it is better to just turn up my amp and play softer, even in metal. I haven't explored this nearly enough, but its a very important issue, a competent bass player should know what technique and set up are best for performing the seemingly impossible task of making the bass clear and hearable amidst distorted guitars and an insane drummer with two bass drums or a double pedal, without taking away from the music.
Anyway, the second thing you'll notice is that I keep my thumb in the same position while plucking both the D and G strings. This is where I will now address the main question in this post. The reason I do this is because I have found that, when you are amplified at a reasonable volume, it becomes absolutely necessary to be muting the B string (and even E string) at all times except when you're playing it, or else it will just naturally start to vibrate/ring a bit.
So the problem for me becomes, how do I mute the B, E, and A strings (and D string, but I've already explained that it is muted by my plucking fingers) while I'm playing the G?
So far, I haven't come up with an answer, so I don't. I choose what seems to be the least bad option: I don't mute the A string with my plucking hand, and try to mute it with the fretting hand instead.
Now I can think of 3 alternative solutions to this problem, but none of them seem satisfactory to me (or are even impossible for my playing style):
1: Mute the B, E, and A string with the thumb.
It is fairly easy for me to kind of stick my thumb between the B and E strings and mute them both. I could easily do this between the E and A strings instead, and then move my hand a bit closer to the body of the bass so that the part just past the knuckle of my thumb mutes the B string. The problem I have with this is that moving my hand closer to the bass changes the angle of my fingers plucking the G string, making them "less than perpendicular" to the strings (even with the curved fingers). This not only gives a different sound than on other strings but is damned uncomfortable when you're used to always having it the other way.
2: Use the ring or pinky as a second muting "appendix".
This is a great solution, and I recommend it to most bass players, since you can also use this "appendix" placed on the string very close to the bridge to give a "palm muted" kind of sound. Excellent as it may be, it will not do for me, as I use all four fingers for plucking (always using the pattern: index middle ring pinky i m r p i m r p, and yes, I can start the pattern with any finger, it doesn't matter). I'm really not willing to sacrifice my fourth finger so that I can use it for muting, 3 fingers would feel really weird to me.
3: Mute with palm.
Again this is a great solution for anyone that doesn't use all 4 fingers for plucking purposes. If you're muting with the palm (well, the part of the hand close to the wrist) you're going to have to "reach" further to pluck with the fingers that are further from the wrist/palm (ie the index and middle) than with the fingers that are closer (pinky and ring). Again, this is inconsistent and uncomfortable.
Out of my technique and the 3 alternatives, which do you prefer, and which do you recommend (keeping in mind that #2 #3 are not an options for me)? Can you think of any more ways to do it, or any combination of these that might work?
I'm willing to try just about anything, I'd really like to be able to free up the fretting hand from all muting responsibility. This is not only because I want as much freedom/mobility with this hand as possible, it is also because when you mute with the fretting hand, you have to pay close attention to where you mute so that you don't "partially mute" by hitting a part of the string that gives a harmonic. The thumb is big enough to not allow harmonics to ring no matter where you mute (except maybe on the B).
Also note that I already hold my bass high and I keep it at about a 45 degree angle, so recommending this make playing more comfortable will not help.
Well that's my big rant. I saw an intelligent conversation going on here so I thought I'd add my bit. On my 4 string there is no problem, I just mute the E and A with the thumb, but having to mute the B string really makes it ALOT more complex.
I just hate to think what you 6 and 7 stringers have to do to get everyone (that is, the strings) to shut up.
What I do is never anchor my thumb anywhere, but let it dangle, relaxed, next to my hand. (I've bored TB about this in many prior posts when "floating thumb" comes up... why not again? 
) My thumb serves as a mute, plus I find it easier to play many things, since it's relaxed and not pushing against anything. If you did this, you'd be still able to keep your perpendicular attack, by bending your fingers at the joints. Hope I understood you question properly, and good luck!
) My thumb serves as a mute, plus I find it easier to play many things, since it's relaxed and not pushing against anything. If you did this, you'd be still able to keep your perpendicular attack, by bending your fingers at the joints. Hope I understood you question properly, and good luck!What I do is never anchor my thumb anywhere, but let it dangle, relaxed, next to my hand. (I've bored TB about this in many prior posts when "floating thumb" comes up... why not again?
I do understand what you're saying, and I do keep my fingers curled at the joints.
This doesn't explain how I would get my muting technique down for every possible scenario.
My main question was:
When you are playing the G string, how do you mute the B, E, and A strings all at the same time with your right hand?
Is it even possible or do you have to rely upon your fretting hand for some muting?
Yeah, I hear you... I can do that by using my thumb. Just lie it down on the strings (B, E, A and D, if you like) while you pluck the G with any or all of your other fingers.
Rakie
Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to...
You know, i started playing that way on my own when I first got the bass, the pics and vids of saw of people anchoring their thumb to a pickup or E string just didnt Feel right for me, I didnt even know this was a technique for awhile, i just thought I was wierd.
Rakie
Let me take you down, 'cause I'm going to...
BTW, didnt read all of this... But it seems like the more strings you have, the better this Technique is... its great on my 5 string, and I cant live without it on my 6. But i can actually do alright on my 4 not using this style, but thats prolly just cuz the way I personally play.
<this post made the following day>
What you've said is the "first alternative" I put in my super long post. Since you've insisted I decided to try it again, which I did last night.
Thanks mate. It turns out that it wasn't nearly as uncomfortable as I thought it would be, and it hardly changes the angle of attack at all (I can't tell a difference in terms of sound).
Long story short, I'm switching to floating thumb. Its actually going very well, the switch from movable anchor to floating is way easier than the switch from fixed anchor to movable achor. And I really see what you guys mean about the versatility. Jumping strings was fairly easy with movable anchor, but now since I can place my thumb "in front" of the strings instead of "on top" as an anchor, moving the thumb across strings to mute is very easy, it just naturally slides along, making string jumping extremely easy.
So far the only problem I've been having is with my arm! I just realized yesterday that when I anchor(ed) the thumb it was actually holding some of the weight of my arm. Now that it has to hold itself up while constantly moving up and down as I switch strings, I've noticed my arm starts to get tired ... I must be really weak. Hopefully this goes away.
So I have one more question, and it relates to the B string. I'm trying to figure out if I would prefer to have a mixed technique, anchoring on the pickup while playing the B string and using a floating thumb everywhere else. I spent about half an hour trying to see which sounds "clearner": B string with or without an anchor.
It's really hard to tell. Probably the hardest thing about playing the B string is that you have to be extra careful when plucking to make sure the string doesn't get driven into the frets when you pluck thus making a metallic "click" sound.
This seems a bit easier to do with an anchor, but this is probably just because I'm not used to floating. As for power, I find that I can still pluck with as much power as I do when anchored, but I can't play nearly as fast (that is, cleanly) while floating ... hopefully this comes with time/practice.
I'm glad it's working out for you!
About your arm: can you rest your forearm on the upper edge of the bass?
About the B string: I think the only "anchoring" I ever do is with my forearm (see above sentence).
Anyway, you're to be commended for your meticulous approach. Having said that, you might have to experiment for long periods of time (like, years), not hours, to figure out what works best for you. Also, you can mix it all up-- don't be afraid to be "inconsistent" with your technique. Hopefully, you'll eventually get to a place where you're not even thinking about what your hands are doing.
About your arm: can you rest your forearm on the upper edge of the bass?
About the B string: I think the only "anchoring" I ever do is with my forearm (see above sentence).
Anyway, you're to be commended for your meticulous approach. Having said that, you might have to experiment for long periods of time (like, years), not hours, to figure out what works best for you. Also, you can mix it all up-- don't be afraid to be "inconsistent" with your technique. Hopefully, you'll eventually get to a place where you're not even thinking about what your hands are doing.
I always had a hard to time to undestando this " floating thumb" thing here in TB, because it is something that i do since i first got a bass, its quite natural to me.
when you guys use floating thumb or movable anchor, do your wrists stay on the body of the bass?
Yes
It's interesting. I never heard of movable anchor or floating thumb before joining this site. Once I tried it the moving anchor technique quickly became natural and now I wonder how I did without it.
I'm also finding the floating thumb thing is starting to come on its own especially when plucking the E and A strings.
This thread, this forum, this site is just too cool for school!
Thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread, especially Todd and Spindizzy!
Since first stumbling across this thread, I have, like others who have posted to this thread, re-evaluated my right-hand technique. I also started out years ago, like others who have posted before me, with fixed anchoring. More recently, I moved to the moving anchor technique due to the need for muting and just because when playing different basses, the differences in PUP placement, etc. make fixed anchoring difficult.
I have spent the past week or so converting to the floating thumb technique (practicing literally 6 or more hours a day to do so) and while painful at first, it has really begun to pay dividends for me. First, I am already playing faster and more evenly. Second, I can see how much less effort is involved with this technique once it is mastered then trying to move a thumb in between strings or on top of them, especially for fast passages.
To those few who have posted to say that they have attempted to convert and think they have failed, I highly recommend sticking with it. Practice slow and deliberately. Go back to playing scales to start with and watch your right hand at first to see where your hand placement is and how it should be able to flow up and down the strings. It is always painful at first to change something you've done for a long time. I think mentally it's hard to go back to basics once you've reached a level of reasonable proficiency using another technique. But I am really seeing the light here now.
Compounding my pain is that I took another of Todd's suggestions to heart and I am also endeavoring to stop raking on the way down passages (or up with respect to the strings). I saw it once in a book and thought it was the best way, and raking is so ingrained in me that it has been painful to eliminate.
Effecting changes in both of these areas at the same time has been difficult, but boy has it been worth it!
Don't get me wrong, I still have tons more practicing to do, but the seeds have been planted. The one thing I am still struggling a bit with is when playing on the E (4 string) or B (5 string). I have been experimenting with having my hand totally floating with no support, using my arm and or the base of my palm as support, and even using the Pup or the bass itself as a brief thumb anchor when playing the low string.
I suspect it may take some time to figure out which works the best, but I am well on my way and I am totally stoked!
Thanks Todd! I plan to buy your video very soon!
Thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread, especially Todd and Spindizzy!
Since first stumbling across this thread, I have, like others who have posted to this thread, re-evaluated my right-hand technique. I also started out years ago, like others who have posted before me, with fixed anchoring. More recently, I moved to the moving anchor technique due to the need for muting and just because when playing different basses, the differences in PUP placement, etc. make fixed anchoring difficult.
I have spent the past week or so converting to the floating thumb technique (practicing literally 6 or more hours a day to do so) and while painful at first, it has really begun to pay dividends for me. First, I am already playing faster and more evenly. Second, I can see how much less effort is involved with this technique once it is mastered then trying to move a thumb in between strings or on top of them, especially for fast passages.
To those few who have posted to say that they have attempted to convert and think they have failed, I highly recommend sticking with it. Practice slow and deliberately. Go back to playing scales to start with and watch your right hand at first to see where your hand placement is and how it should be able to flow up and down the strings. It is always painful at first to change something you've done for a long time. I think mentally it's hard to go back to basics once you've reached a level of reasonable proficiency using another technique. But I am really seeing the light here now.
Compounding my pain is that I took another of Todd's suggestions to heart and I am also endeavoring to stop raking on the way down passages (or up with respect to the strings). I saw it once in a book and thought it was the best way, and raking is so ingrained in me that it has been painful to eliminate.
Effecting changes in both of these areas at the same time has been difficult, but boy has it been worth it!
Don't get me wrong, I still have tons more practicing to do, but the seeds have been planted. The one thing I am still struggling a bit with is when playing on the E (4 string) or B (5 string). I have been experimenting with having my hand totally floating with no support, using my arm and or the base of my palm as support, and even using the Pup or the bass itself as a brief thumb anchor when playing the low string.
I suspect it may take some time to figure out which works the best, but I am well on my way and I am totally stoked!
Thanks Todd! I plan to buy your video very soon!
You and I both my friend!This thread, this forum, this site is just too cool for school!
Thanks everyone for your contributions to this thread, especially Todd and Spindizzy!
Since first stumbling across this thread, I have, like others who have posted to this thread, re-evaluated my right-hand technique. I also started out years ago, like others who have posted before me, with fixed anchoring. More recently, I moved to the moving anchor technique due to the need for muting and just because when playing different basses, the differences in PUP placement, etc. make fixed anchoring difficult.
I have spent the past week or so converting to the floating thumb technique (practicing literally 6 or more hours a day to do so) and while painful at first, it has really begun to pay dividends for me. First, I am already playing faster and more evenly. Second, I can see how much less effort is involved with this technique once it is mastered then trying to move a thumb in between strings or on top of them, especially for fast passages.
To those few who have posted to say that they have attempted to convert and think they have failed, I highly recommend sticking with it. Practice slow and deliberately. Go back to playing scales to start with and watch your right hand at first to see where your hand placement is and how it should be able to flow up and down the strings. It is always painful at first to change something you've done for a long time. I think mentally it's hard to go back to basics once you've reached a level of reasonable proficiency using another technique. But I am really seeing the light here now.
Compounding my pain is that I took another of Todd's suggestions to heart and I am also endeavoring to stop raking on the way down passages (or up with respect to the strings). I saw it once in a book and thought it was the best way, and raking is so ingrained in me that it has been painful to eliminate.
Effecting changes in both of these areas at the same time has been difficult, but boy has it been worth it!
Don't get me wrong, I still have tons more practicing to do, but the seeds have been planted. The one thing I am still struggling a bit with is when playing on the E (4 string) or B (5 string). I have been experimenting with having my hand totally floating with no support, using my arm and or the base of my palm as support, and even using the Pup or the bass itself as a brief thumb anchor when playing the low string.
I suspect it may take some time to figure out which works the best, but I am well on my way and I am totally stoked!
Thanks Todd! I plan to buy your video very soon!
I'm pretty much in the exact same situation as you, I stumbled across this thread about 4 weeks ago and now I'm switching from movable anchor to floating thumb and I'm just flying with it. I also strongly recommend it to everyone.
Another thing I've noticed is that it makes me want to play bass more. I don't get frustrated as easily with difficult patterns because I can learn them cleanly so much faster.
And I also have the same problem as you with the lowest string ... I'm almost thinking of using an anchor while playing the B, but I can see that my consistency from playing without an anchor is developing, just slowly. It will take much practice, especially since I just lowered my strings.
Another great thing I've noticed about this technique is how easy it is to move my thumb up to the string my finger is plucking and doing a harmonic with it. Hooray!
