Floppy strings on a 35'' scale Lakland

[Drienvyftigcent]

very, very, weird. are you certain beyond any shadow of a doubt you're tuned up to correct pitch? if so, i am at a total loss on this one.

Yes I'm absolutely sure.

 

[G On Bass]

No my feeling hasn't changed, like I said I've owned both the 44-02 and the 55-02 at the same time with the same strings and the 44-02 had way tighter strings.

Short of trying a different set of the same strings, not much else to say. Good Luck!

 

[Dean-oh]

I know this is a strange question to ask, but is it possible that you were plucking in a different position on the two basses? Did you feel the slack on both hands or just your plucking hand? I have 5 and a 4 string that are the same scale length, yet the different pickups and positions of them force me to pluck in a different spot, and it FEELS like the strings are stiffer on my 4 (same strings).

 

[Double E]

What is the direct negative effect you are experiencing? Are the strings rattling on the frets? Is the tension just uncomfortably low to play on? Are you used to playing a five string?

This is bizarre really, as has been mentioned a 35" scale would require higher tension to acheive the same relative pitch with the same string on a 34" scale.

I am thinking it is just a setup issue. If you are coming from a 4 banger, maybe you are not used to wrangling a low B string. There is a technique adjustment that needs to be made to deal with the fat, and yes, somewhat floppy low B.

 

[lz4005]

Sorry but that's ridiculous. You'd have to have issues not to know the difference between loose and tight. I've sold the 44-02 months ago, but I've owned it simalteniously with the 55-02 for a while and played them both. The strings were stiffer on the 44-02 than the 55-02 by a landslide, there's nothing subjective there. It was a difference of night and day. I'm just not sure how it's possible.

It isn't. The same strings will always have higher tension when tuned to the same pitch on an instrument with 1" longer scale length.
Either the strings weren't the same or your estimation of the tightness of them was wrong. Those are the only two possibilities.

 

[Drienvyftigcent]

I know this is a strange question to ask, but is it possible that you were plucking in a different position on the two basses? Did you feel the slack on both hands or just your plucking hand? I have 5 and a 4 string that are the same scale length, yet the different pickups and positions of them force me to pluck in a different spot, and it FEELS like the strings are stiffer on my 4 (same strings).

I understand what you mean and that's not it either. On the 44-02 I plucked on the neck pickup all the time, now on the 55-02 the flop forces me to actually pluck on the bridge pickup (still not as tight as the 44-02 played on the neck pickup). On the neck pickup, it's just too floppy.

 

[Drienvyftigcent]

What is the direct negative effect you are experiencing? Are the strings rattling on the frets? Is the tension just uncomfortably low to play on? Are you used to playing a five string?

This is bizarre really, as has been mentioned a 35" scale would require higher tension to acheive the same relative pitch with the same string on a 34" scale.

I am thinking it is just a setup issue. If you are coming from a 4 banger, maybe you are not used to wrangling a low B string. There is a technique adjustment that needs to be made to deal with the fat, and yes, somewhat floppy low B.

It's quite hard to explain. I can tell you that rattling is not quite the issue. I can basically explain it like this: if i were to bend a string on the 44-02 it was much harder than on the 55-02. I can take the E string on the 55-02 and bend it all across the neck, there is no way I could've done that on the 44-02. The strings on the 55-02 are much more flexibel, not just the B but all of them. It means that when I play, especially when I play hard, the strings give in too much and do not give enough resistance. It makes for a very soft feel but also a tone that is not as tight.

There is no rattling however the E and B being the more floppy strings in general do bounce off the fretboard a certain way which produces a sort of floppy sound, as I said it's hard to explain. It is much easier to play though, since it requires much less efford to pluck, but it sounds inferior and it forces me to play softer and near the bridge.

It is definitely not my technique, you will just have to believe me on that. I have owned both basses simalteniously and played exactly the same way on both.

 

[Razman]

Nothing about the neck pocket or bridge can make a string floppy.
If you can get the string to pitch it will have exactly the same tension as that same string on every bass with the same scale length.

While this statement is true, it doesn't account for feel, or rather, the ability of the structure (the bass) supporting the strings to absorb or resonate string vibrations. One could construct two instruments - one out of cardboard (ever see the carboard Strat?) and one out of steel bar stock, and the two instruments will have different feels to them - despite having the same tension on the strings.

The first Dingwall Combustion I picked up seemed to have floppy strings (to me). This was in contrast to the Voodoo I owned at the time, which did not. As I've learned over the years, it is not just about one aspect, be it strings, scale, wood, etc. by itself - it's the whole instrument. And without taking numerous measurements there really isn't a way to get empirical data to perform a proper comparison.

That said, I'm not discounting the OP's perception at all, and would suggest ensuring that the neck joint is solid: disassemble and check for any shims, ensure the screws are tightened properly, etc. Also, clean the bridge to ensure all bridge hardware isn't gunked up with gunk (like those little set screws, etc.). Ensure the nut is solidly attached - basically any string touch-point needs to be solid, and the neck joint.

A note on DDT's - I used them instead of Hi Beams for the thicker tension and was pleased with their sound; I don't recall them being all that different from other stainless offerings from DR. Now I use Kaliums, so if you can get them across the pond I'd recommend those for heavier gauges.

Hope this helps - I know how frustrating not having the right 'feel' can be.

Raz

 

[Drienvyftigcent]

It isn't. The same strings will always have higher tension when tuned to the same pitch on an instrument with 1" longer scale length.
Either the strings weren't the same or your estimation of the tightness of them was wrong. Those are the only two possibilities.

Listen, I agree that the tension is the same for both circumstances. The string tension is the result of the string type, gauge and scale length and pitch. But, and I guess I wasn't clear on this (sorry), I am talking about the stifness/flexibility of the strings. My estimation was not wrong. I mean, you might think I'm ludicrous but you will just have to believe when I tell you that the stifness/flexibility of the exact same strings tuned to the same pitch on the 44-02 was much tighter than that on the 55-02. So it has to be something about the setup that causes the strings on the 55-02 to feel more flexibel/less stiff even though the tension is the same. I wish I could simply give you both and let you feel for yourself but I can't .

 

[lz4005]

Listen, I agree that the tension is the same for both circumstances. The string tension is the result of the string type, gauge and scale length and pitch. But, and I guess I wasn't clear on this (sorry), I am talking about the stifness/flexibility of the strings. My estimation was not wrong. I mean, you might think I'm ludicrous but you will just have to believe when I tell you that the stifness/flexibility of the exact same strings tuned to the same pitch on the 44-02 was much tighter than that on the 55-02. So it has to be something about the setup that causes the strings on the 55-02 to feel more flexibel/less stiff even though the tension is the same. I wish I could simply give you both and let you feel for yourself but I can't .

The tension is not the same. If the strings are identical then the tension on the 35" scale instrument is higher.
There is nothing about setup that will make strings more or less flexible. It just doesn't work that way.
Either you are wrong or the strings were different. Products get mislabeled all the time. Did you measure them to make sure they're the same thickness and core?

 

[Drienvyftigcent]

The tension is not the same. If the strings are identical then the tension on the 35" scale instrument is higher.
There is nothing about setup that will make strings more or less flexible. It just doesn't work that way.
Either you are wrong or the strings were different. Products get mislabeled all the time. Did you measure them to make sure they're the same thickness and core?

Yeah pardon me, the tension is not the same since it's a 35'' I forgot about that lol. I have not measured that the strings were the same size and core. I simply bought DR Hi beams for years on the 44-02, switched to the 55-02, kept buying DR Hi Beams and could not accept the low stiffness/overly high flexibility on the 55-02, then I switched to Lo Riders and still am not satisfied. I've bought several sets of Hi Beams on the 55-02 before transitioning to Lo Riders, I doubt that each one of those sets was faulty.

The only thing, now that I remember, that was different on the 44-02 from this 55-02 is that the action was higher quite a bit. I think that definitely did contribute to a certain extent that the strings felt somewhat stiffer? But definetely not enough to explain this much of a difference.

 

[David Jayne]

The only thing, now that I remember, that was different on the 44-02 from this 55-02 is that the action was higher quite a bit.

Bingo.

 

[scuzzy]

A higher action means you are moving the string more, and making it more taut when fretting. The "feel" will be different from a 34" to a 35" anyway. It is a different scale length. Tension can be similar as well as stiffness of strings, but the overall string length will have an effect on feel as well. String height at the bridge and nut, as well as the amount of relief in the neck all have a very noticeable effect on the overall feel.

I would bet dollar to donuts that the bass is fine, it just needs a thorough setup to your liking. Perhaps, like myself, you prefer a medium height setup, not super low....just guessing.

 

[tbz]

B strings are always "floppier" than low Es, by a substantial margin.

You went from a 4 to a 5. Was the 4 in standard EADG tuning?

 

[groovaholic]

There are three variables in string tension:
Scale length
Tuned Pitch
Unit Weight of the string

Tension is an objective measurement; all other things being equal, the 35" scale bass will always have higher tension at pitch than a 34" scale bass.

"Feel" however, is entirely subjective -- and I'll echo the advice of those who've told you to raise your action if you want your strings to feel more stiff.

 

[InhumanResource]

For sure. Aren't ask those things plekk'd too? They should be as consistent as it gets. Something else is almost certainly happening here besides build quality.

 

[Drienvyftigcent]

B strings are always "floppier" than low Es, by a substantial margin.

You went from a 4 to a 5. Was the 4 in standard EADG tuning?

Yes it was.

 

[Drienvyftigcent]

A higher action means you are moving the string more, and making it more taut when fretting. The "feel" will be different from a 34" to a 35" anyway. It is a different scale length. Tension can be similar as well as stiffness of strings, but the overall string length will have an effect on feel as well. String height at the bridge and nut, as well as the amount of relief in the neck all have a very noticeable effect on the overall feel.

I would bet dollar to donuts that the bass is fine, it just needs a thorough setup to your liking. Perhaps, like myself, you prefer a medium height setup, not super low....just guessing.

There are three variables in string tension:
Scale length
Tuned Pitch
Unit Weight of the string

Tension is an objective measurement; all other things being equal, the 35" scale bass will always have higher tension at pitch than a 34" scale bass.

"Feel" however, is entirely subjective -- and I'll echo the advice of those who've told you to raise your action if you want your strings to feel more stiff.

I guess I could try raising the action to get a stiffer feel, even though I really do like the action this low. Isn't it possible to retain stiffness without adding action height? I mean there's plenty of players with very low action, does that mean that all of their strings have bizarelly low stiffness?

 

[larrygs]

I guess I could try raising the action to get a stiffer feel, even though I really do like the action this low. Isn't it possible to retain stiffness without adding action height? I mean there's plenty of players with very low action, does that mean that all of their strings have bizarelly low stiffness?

Normally the low action is for players with soft touch, because if you like to bend and play hard, you will get a lot of fret noise. I guess you will need to find a balance, it does happens to me between my 34" and 35", both have low action now and I try to keep the same soft touch in both. If I do play hard I do get lots of fret noise.

 

[Ric5]

My experience is that fatter strings and longer scales don't magically give you a better B string.

For me a better low B is Superlight D'Addadio strings with a .125 B string on a 34" or 33" neck. Also flatten out the neck as much as possible and lower action helps. The lighter strings bring out the mids. Mids is where your best overtones live.

I have a Rickenbacker 4003sw that I just converted from a 4 to a 5 string bass. the scale is 33.25" and the B is .125. It has an amazing low B.