Floppy strings on a 35'' scale Lakland

[Double E]

Bottom line… The bass cannot be fixed. Send it to me and I'll get rid of it for you.

That is all.

 

[scuzzy]

I guess I could try raising the action to get a stiffer feel, even though I really do like the action this low. Isn't it possible to retain stiffness without adding action height? I mean there's plenty of players with very low action, does that mean that all of their strings have bizarelly low stiffness?

i have tried setting my bass up like many people on this forum prefer....light or super light strings with a very low action. i just can't do it. i hate the feel, and I can't play the way I like with that type of setup. i need medium strings at the lightest. and a medium height action.

check the DDT strings from DR, they are supposed to have a stiffer core, although they are the same tension. I have someing coming in now, I can report their feel when they arrive and are installed.

 

[Tritone]

Check the string height at the nut. It might be slotted too low, which could account for a "floppy" feel.

 

[physics]

A suggestion I have for reducing the floppiness would be to consider flatwound strings vs roundwound. A flatwound string will have less void area between the adjacent wire wraps than a roundwound will and the result will be a higher linear mass density. The higher mass density will require a higher tension to maintain the string's fundamental pitch.

The trade-off is that you're now using a flatwound, which may not be acceptable to you. I happen to use D'addario Chrome flats, which have a hex core and a high tension that I like.

 

[tbz]

Yes it was.

That's basically it then. The b string feels looser at pitch because that's just how B strings are, until you start looking at fanned frets and/or really long scale (37"+)

No idea why the E is floppier, factually. I can see how it now being a middle string, as opposed to an end of fretboard string, could make it feel different.

Either way, you're used to the "lower" two strings being an E and an A, now they're a B and an E. Its going to just feel different.

 

[ixlramp]

Somehow i doubt it is the slight difference in action, or the fact it is a 5 string instead of a 4 string. The ease of bending a string sideways is not affected by action, and the OP states all strings are floppy and knows to compare EADG with EADG and not BEAD with EADG.
A wrongly-labelled string set is one possibility, or maybe it could be some flaw in the bass construction, however a flaw would affect string tone so if it sounds good construction may be fine.

How flat is the neck relief? Flatter creates a more rigid neck.

First i would buy the same string set again to rule out a wrongly-labelled set.
Then buy a set with higher gauges (.050-.110 + single .145). You obviously need more tension so higher gauges may be the answer. You can try tuning up the bass by a semitone to see how that would feel.

 

[Drienvyftigcent]

That's basically it then. The b string feels looser at pitch because that's just how B strings are, until you start looking at fanned frets and/or really long scale (37"+)

No idea why the E is floppier, factually. I can see how it now being a middle string, as opposed to an end of fretboard string, could make it feel different.

Either way, you're used to the "lower" two strings being an E and an A, now they're a B and an E. Its going to just feel different.

All of the strings are floppy actually, not just the E and B.

 

[Drienvyftigcent]

A higher action means you are moving the string more, and making it more taut when fretting. The "feel" will be different from a 34" to a 35" anyway. It is a different scale length. Tension can be similar as well as stiffness of strings, but the overall string length will have an effect on feel as well. String height at the bridge and nut, as well as the amount of relief in the neck all have a very noticeable effect on the overall feel.

I would bet dollar to donuts that the bass is fine, it just needs a thorough setup to your liking. Perhaps, like myself, you prefer a medium height setup, not super low....just guessing.

There are three variables in string tension:
Scale length
Tuned Pitch
Unit Weight of the string

Tension is an objective measurement; all other things being equal, the 35" scale bass will always have higher tension at pitch than a 34" scale bass.

"Feel" however, is entirely subjective -- and I'll echo the advice of those who've told you to raise your action if you want your strings to feel more stiff.

Check the string height at the nut. It might be slotted too low, which could account for a "floppy" feel.

Excuses for asking for your attention (I think this is more convenient then starting a new thread) but do you guys know how exactly I should raise the action to reduce the floppy feeling of the strings? I have called up my local guitar center and they said you should never raise the nut but only the saddles, unless there is buzz which sort of isn't my problem. But if I'd raise only the saddles that would only mean higher action on my plucking hand side but not on my left hand, and then I'm pretty sure the strings would not feel any less floppy? What do you guys think I should do and how exactly should I raise action to reduce a floppy feeling?

 

[scuzzy]

Excuses for asking for your attention (I think this is more convenient then starting a new thread) but do you guys know how exactly I should raise the action to reduce the floppy feeling of the strings? I have called up my local guitar center and they said you should never raise the nut but only the saddles, unless there is buzz which sort of isn't my problem. But if I'd raise only the saddles that would only mean higher action on my plucking hand side but not on my left hand, and then I'm pretty sure the strings would not feel any less floppy? What do you guys think I should do and how exactly should I raise action to reduce a floppy feeling?

I certainly wouldn't raise the nut and I would not start raising the Saddles. I would start by putting a little relief in the neck which would cause a slightly higher action in the lower and middle of the fretboard. If that seems too low for you then I would maybe consider raising the bridge Saddles. But then you may need to adjust your intonation as well.

Are the nuts cut to identical heights on each bass? Is the string height the same at the 5th, 9th, 12th fret on both basses? If not, getting the 5 string closely matching the 4 string should get your "feel" where you want it.

 

[ixlramp]

do you guys know how exactly I should raise the action to reduce the floppy feeling of the strings?

Raising the action has no effect on the tension of the strings and won't make them less floppy, some of the advice in this thread makes no sense.
Action should be set up at the optimum for playability: low as possible while avoiding excessive buzz, trying to avoid floppiness is a silly reason to have overly-high action (it won't avoid floppiness anyway).
If the strings are too floppy you need either higher tension (larger gauge) or stiffer strings (big core or hex core instead of round core, or flatwounds).
You obviously need more tension, even though the cause of the floppiness is unclear, so just buy higher gauge strings in your favourite brand. .050-.110 plus either a .130 (will obviously be relatively floppy) or preferably a .145 single B.
A .130 B has a similar tension to a .095 E so will feel floppy.

How straight is the neck? Too much bow can make it less rigid.

 

[David Jayne]

Raising the action has no effect on the tension of the strings and won't make them less floppy, some of the advice in this thread makes no sense.
Action should be set up at the optimum for playability: low as possible while avoiding excessive buzz, trying to avoid floppiness is a silly reason to have overly-high action (it won't avoid floppiness anyway).
If the strings are too floppy you need either higher tension (larger gauge) or stiffer strings (big core or hex core instead of round core, or flatwounds).
You obviously need more tension, even though the cause of the floppiness is unclear, so just buy higher gauge strings in your favourite brand. .050-.110 plus either a .130 (will obviously be relatively floppy) or preferably a .145 single B.
A .130 B has a similar tension to a .095 E so will feel floppy.

How straight is the neck? Too much bow can make it less rigid.

His preferred strings aren't available in higher gauges. He noticed that this bass is set up with considerably lower action than his other bass, with the same, preferred strings. Thus our suggestion that raising the action will make it seem stiffer (it will). This may be all that's needed.

 

[michael_t]

He noticed that this bass is set up with considerably lower action than his other bass, with the same, preferred strings. Thus our suggestion that raising the action will make it seem stiffer (it will). This may be all that's needed.

In my own experience, when a set of strings feel floppy, it's usually for the right hand (ie plucking). Adjusting the action would only affect how they feel for the left hand (ie fretting).

 

[David Jayne]

It's literally the only thing left to try.

 

[ixlramp]

His preferred strings aren't available in higher gauges.

They are, see my posts, a 4 string set plus a single .130 or DDT .145.

He noticed that this bass is set up with considerably lower action than his other bass, with the same, preferred strings. Thus our suggestion that raising the action will make it seem stiffer (it will).

It won't. floppiness is due to string stiffness and tension only (as he stated the ease of pulling the string sideways) so is unaffected by action. A high action just means the same floppiness but with more effort needed to fret the strings, so is a worse situation.

Adjusting the action would only affect how they feel for the left hand (ie fretting).

Yes, feel as in effort needed to fret, but floppiness remains the same.

 

[Double E]

It won't. floppiness is due to string stiffness and tension only (as he stated the ease of pulling the string sideways) so is unaffected by action. A high action just means the same floppiness but with more effort needed to fret the strings, so is a worse situation.

Yes, feel as in effort needed to fret, but floppiness remains the same.

Your strict adherence to the physics of string tension fosters the argument that this floppiness does not exist at all...that one of two basses with the same gauge scale and tuning can feel "floppier" than the other is frankly absurd.

Nothing about the construction of a bass guitar could possibly contribute to the same exact strings feeling floppy on one instrument and not on another. If there was some point of weakness that would cause a reduction in the tension of the string then the pitch would be diving all over the place.

That leaves us with the only other variable that can contribute to the feel of the instrument… the action and the set up.

 

[ixlramp]

No i don't dispute what the OP reports, and physics doesn't either, it can't as there has to be a cause, whatever it is, maybe a wrongly-labelled set of strings, a change in the construction of a particular set of strings, maybe bass construction or some flaw somewhere. I also don't say it is not setup, just that it is not saddle height.
The report is not just of 'feel', the distance the string can be pulled sideways differs, this means either differing tension or maybe the instrument flexing more.

It would be stupid to setup with an overly high action, action should always be as low as you are comfortable with.

Was the 4 string strung through-body too?.

At a point, as long as the tone is good, you have to just accept the unexplained difference and realise higher tension or stiffer strings are needed.

 

[Double E]

It would be stupid to setup with an overly high action, action should always be as low as you are comfortable with.

That's the point of the suggestion to raise the action, perhaps it is too low to provide a feel he is comfortable with.

 

[David Jayne]

No i don't dispute what the OP reports, and physics doesn't either, it can't as there has to be a cause, whatever it is, maybe a wrongly-labelled set of strings, a change in the construction of a particular set of strings, maybe bass construction or some flaw somewhere. I also don't say it is not setup, just that it is not saddle height.
The report is not just of 'feel', the distance the string can be pulled sideways differs, this means either differing tension or maybe the instrument flexing more.

It would be stupid to setup with an overly high action, action should always be as low as you are comfortable with.

Was the 4 string strung through-body too?.

At a point, as long as the tone is good, you have to just accept the unexplained difference and realise higher tension or stiffer strings are needed.

Nobody said "set it up with overly high action." The OP observed that his other bass is set up with "considerably" higher action. We are suggesting he make his new bass the same. See how that goes.

 

[David Jayne]

That's the point of the suggestion to raise the action, perhaps it is too low to provide a feel he is comfortable with.

I assume ixlramp will say "this won't affect plucking hand feel." And around we go. : D

 

[David Jayne]

To the OP: if you don't know how to set up your bass, see the stickies here or take it to someone who does. Bring your four string as a reference for the setup person.