I love the tone of Labella flats and the tension of TIs, but not vice versa. I was hoping Labella’s Low Tension Flats would be the answer, but they’re not all that low tension. Any suggestions where to look next?
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Floppy Thumpin’ Flats?
- Thread starter Just Wrong
- Start date
In short, there's no easy answer to your question. You'll have to either settle with a compromise, or get creative. Here goes ...little.
[Less promising courses of action smallfonted.]
As you may or may not know, the La Bella Low Tension Flats *are* lower-tension - proper, as in lengthwise pull - than the Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats. However, they are slightly stiffer.
If what you're sensitive to is indeed flexibility as opposed to scientific tension, you may consider the Dogal Traditional Vintage Flats, which are reportedly medium-tension but high-flex, like their other, Jaco System flats, but mellower in tone:
Dogal Traditional Vintage Flats review
Here's a video review. I'll ask @e-flat, who also reviewed them,
Dogal Jaco Flatwound Review (Pics Added)
to chime in on this one: they may not be the right solution to your conundrum, after all. Also, only one set of gauges available.
[The aforementioned Dogal Jaco System flats instead come in a range of gauges, all on the light side except one
from what I've heard
Dogal Traditional Vintage Flats review
Dogal Jaco Flatwound Review (Pics Added)
but may be too lively in the highs for your taste:
from what I've heard
Finally, Dogal's third flatwound line, the new Hellborg flats
Invalid Link Removed
are even more flexible, but apparently very middy.
Another Italian brand, GalliStrings, also makes two distinct types of flatwound. The conventional Galli Jazz Flats are decently flexible but only come in 45-105; the nylon-core (but usable through magnetic pickups due to the winding) Galli Synthesis Flats are also one-size, and not very thumpy, Invalid Link Removed.]
Alternatively, you could try getting a custom set, either ordered as such or put together from singles, of roundcore Pyramid Gold flats with a 085 or 090 low E:
Flatwound
Pyramid Flatwound Long Scale Single Strings, 8,70 €
^ German vendors, because German brand. The manufacturer can be contacted and ordered from directly, as I said: they speak English, and prices+transatlantic shipping are honest, by all accounts.
What else? Dunlop flats have thin cores. Either the 40-100 set
STAINLESS STEEL FLATWOUND BASS STRINGS 40-100
or the 50-110...without the 110, with the other three detuned a perfect fourth, and an added 035 from another source
STAINLESS STEEL FLATWOUND BASS STRINGS 50-110
could do the trick. Tone is reportedly not very La Bellaish initially, but it mellows out with time.
[You could also try the same downtuning trick with the DR Legend flats, or the new La Bella Olinto Flats: discard the low E, tune the rest a fourth below, add a high C tuned down to G. It may be closer in tone to what you want, but potentially *too* low-tension.]
[Or else, uh... 1/8 steel rope-core, double-bass strings, maybe? Probably not cheap - like, at all.]
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That’s a tough order… La Bella DTF tone with TI Jazz feel. I don’t know of a string that NAILS that combo, and it sounds like the La Bella LTF didn’t work for you due to tension/stiffness/feel.
I’m inclined to recommend the La Bella 760FX set, but they’re not really any more supple than the LTFs. Your best bet might be to let your TI flats age & die (?).
The Dogal Vintage set which @HaphAsSard mentioned may be an option, but again they’re not as supple as TI.
He also mentioned a custom set of Pyramid Golds, and that might be the best option of all. I’d recommend a 95/70/55/40 set - nice & rich, dark tone, but pretty supple. I’ve run this exact set on a P Bass and like it a lot. You should be able to order that custom set direct from Pyramid for the same price as a standard Gold set. Might be the best match for what you seek.
Thank you both for the detailed responses! I’ve tried Pyramids before. I remember loving the tone, but one or two strings felt different from the rest. I’ll give the custom set idea a try.
I'd like to emend a specific point of my earlier reply.
Pyramid Gold flatwounds are not normally round-core except for the hexagonal-core low E (as I mistakenly remembered), but the other way around: they're hex-core except for the low E (and, I guess, bigger; in terms of their available gauges, it probably means they're only round-core starting either from the 090 or the 095).
Settling this old debate with this unexpected revelation was another contribution of @e-flat's:
I'm mentioning this not just to correct myself, but to give you (the OP, and whomever else potentially interested) a heads-up as to the possibility of making your custom order not just of a light-gauge set, but an all-roundcore one as well, which would add flexage.
This possibility was, again, originally made known on these boards by e-flat:
From the same email:
“
If you like the bass strings on round core steel, we can make this for you - no problem
“
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I have several of the flats that HaphAsSard mentioned, on some of my basses; and pretty much agree with him. And, yes, there is a difference between actual, pull-to-pitch tension, and perceived stiffness. Witness the fact that the La Bella LTTF's feel much stiffer than TI Jazz Flats, yet have 6 lbs. less total tension. So...
Which of these flats might make you happy?
- Dogal R44; 42-100 gauge. Believe it or not, I have a set of these on my '13 Gibson Thunderbird. Where they feel - and sound - pretty darn good. Tone? Pretty mid-range and modern; not as bright as the TI's, but not quite as dark as, say Roto RS77 Monel Flats (which I've had on my P-Bass, and another T-Bird that I sold). Stiffness? Sorry; they're not exactly bridge cables, but... they're noticeably stiffer than the TI's. Stiff enough that, if I were into it, I could slap them fairly easily. I can play them with a pick really well, though...
- Dogal JC 106B; 40-98 gauge. I bought these to put on my '73 Rick 4001, which was developing a neck problem peculiar to older 4001's; but, decided to use the La Bella LTFF's instead. So, they're on one of my Danelectro DC59 Pros, now. These just might make you happy. Tone? Pretty much like the R44s, IMO. Stiffness? Honestly, I think these things are even more flexible than the TI's that are on my Alembic Epic. Flexible enough that I have to make serious adjustments to my pick technique. And the 106B's are the heavy gauge set... As for actual tension? The package they came in, said 5kg per string (!
!). I can't say for sure, but... it took almost nothing to bring them up to pitch, so...?
- Galli Jazz Flats; 45-105 gauge. Much as I like these on my EBMM 4HH Stingray Special? I don't think you would care for them. They're fairly "thumpy", IMO (which is OK by me; I like 'thumpy"), but... if you thought the La Bella LTTF's were too stiff? You won't care for the Galli's, either...
Other strings? Well, stiffness is a combination of gauge and, in large part, the diameter and shape of the core wire. Small diameter, round core wire is much more flexible than large diameter, hex core wire. And, with few exceptions, flats are typically large-for-their-gauge, hex core wire strings. So, there just aren't that many "fish" that you'd like, in Lake Flatwound... Some flats you might also think about;
- Roto SM77s; 40-100 gauge. Might be thumpy enough, but... most likely not flexible enough for you.
- La Bella 760FX; 39-96 gauge. I have these on my Dano Longhorn and my other DC59 Pro. They are definitely plenty thumpy (the 2 Dano's being semi-hollow body basses might have a little to do with it, though). And, fairly flexible, too, IMO. But, unless you can snoop around for a set of the long scale FX's? La Bella currently doesn't list the long scale set in their catalog; only the short scale set. Which is a shame...
- DR Legends; my only experience with these, is the short scale set that's on my headless Kramer Duke. They certainly have the low end tone; in fact, it's identical to the short scale GHS Boomers that they replaced. Their stiffness is almost identical to the Boomers, too. And those things were... STIFF.
-Pyramid Golds; I don't have Pyramids on anything at the moment. The "short scale" Pyramids that I bought, turned out to be just a hair too short for a new Guild Starfire I Bass. I can't speak to their long scale strings, but I did notice that the set I have, is identical to the "factory" strings on my German Hofner 500/2 Club Bass. And those things, while plenty thumpy, are not flexible - at all...
- Dunlops; no idea. Never tried those.
Bottom line? If it were me, I'd give the Dogal Jaco Carbonsteel Flats a try...
Which of these flats might make you happy?
- Dogal R44; 42-100 gauge. Believe it or not, I have a set of these on my '13 Gibson Thunderbird. Where they feel - and sound - pretty darn good. Tone? Pretty mid-range and modern; not as bright as the TI's, but not quite as dark as, say Roto RS77 Monel Flats (which I've had on my P-Bass, and another T-Bird that I sold). Stiffness? Sorry; they're not exactly bridge cables, but... they're noticeably stiffer than the TI's. Stiff enough that, if I were into it, I could slap them fairly easily. I can play them with a pick really well, though...
- Dogal JC 106B; 40-98 gauge. I bought these to put on my '73 Rick 4001, which was developing a neck problem peculiar to older 4001's; but, decided to use the La Bella LTFF's instead. So, they're on one of my Danelectro DC59 Pros, now. These just might make you happy. Tone? Pretty much like the R44s, IMO. Stiffness? Honestly, I think these things are even more flexible than the TI's that are on my Alembic Epic. Flexible enough that I have to make serious adjustments to my pick technique. And the 106B's are the heavy gauge set... As for actual tension? The package they came in, said 5kg per string (!
!). I can't say for sure, but... it took almost nothing to bring them up to pitch, so...?- Galli Jazz Flats; 45-105 gauge. Much as I like these on my EBMM 4HH Stingray Special? I don't think you would care for them. They're fairly "thumpy", IMO (which is OK by me; I like 'thumpy"), but... if you thought the La Bella LTTF's were too stiff? You won't care for the Galli's, either...
Other strings? Well, stiffness is a combination of gauge and, in large part, the diameter and shape of the core wire. Small diameter, round core wire is much more flexible than large diameter, hex core wire. And, with few exceptions, flats are typically large-for-their-gauge, hex core wire strings. So, there just aren't that many "fish" that you'd like, in Lake Flatwound... Some flats you might also think about;
- Roto SM77s; 40-100 gauge. Might be thumpy enough, but... most likely not flexible enough for you.
- La Bella 760FX; 39-96 gauge. I have these on my Dano Longhorn and my other DC59 Pro. They are definitely plenty thumpy (the 2 Dano's being semi-hollow body basses might have a little to do with it, though). And, fairly flexible, too, IMO. But, unless you can snoop around for a set of the long scale FX's? La Bella currently doesn't list the long scale set in their catalog; only the short scale set. Which is a shame...
- DR Legends; my only experience with these, is the short scale set that's on my headless Kramer Duke. They certainly have the low end tone; in fact, it's identical to the short scale GHS Boomers that they replaced. Their stiffness is almost identical to the Boomers, too. And those things were... STIFF.
-Pyramid Golds; I don't have Pyramids on anything at the moment. The "short scale" Pyramids that I bought, turned out to be just a hair too short for a new Guild Starfire I Bass. I can't speak to their long scale strings, but I did notice that the set I have, is identical to the "factory" strings on my German Hofner 500/2 Club Bass. And those things, while plenty thumpy, are not flexible - at all...
- Dunlops; no idea. Never tried those.
Bottom line? If it were me, I'd give the Dogal Jaco Carbonsteel Flats a try...
GHS light gauge Precision Flats (45-95) are definitely thumpy. I don't know how floppy they are compared to TIs or LaBella FFs, but I was definitely chasing em around the fretboard a bit, as I would with any flexible string due to my ham-fisted technique, and the thump was unmistakeable. They're also relatively inexpensive.
I liked the feel of them. I no longer use them because they're too floppy and too thumpy.
I liked the feel of them. I no longer use them because they're too floppy and too thumpy.
If you're in North America, click on the links to Strings by Mail I put in my post above. If you aren't, either do the same (they ship worldwide, I believe) or google the product names, in search of other vendors.
They're hex-core except for the low E (and, I would guess, low B) which is round. However, you could order an all-roundcore set if you so wish, because they said as much in an email.
I have several of the flats that HaphAsSard mentioned, on some of my basses; and pretty much agree with him. And, yes, there is a difference between actual, pull-to-pitch tension, and perceived stiffness. Witness the fact that the La Bella LTTF's feel much stiffer than TI Jazz Flats, yet have 6 lbs. less total tension. So...
Which of these flats might make you happy?
- Dogal R44; 42-100 gauge. Believe it or not, I have a set of these on my '13 Gibson Thunderbird. Where they feel - and sound - pretty darn good. Tone? Pretty mid-range and modern; not as bright as the TI's, but not quite as dark as, say Roto RS77 Monel Flats (which I've had on my P-Bass, and another T-Bird that I sold). Stiffness? Sorry; they're not exactly bridge cables, but... they're noticeably stiffer than the TI's. Stiff enough that, if I were into it, I could slap them fairly easily. I can play them with a pick really well, though...
- Dogal JC 106B; 40-98 gauge. I bought these to put on my '73 Rick 4001, which was developing a neck problem peculiar to older 4001's; but, decided to use the La Bella LTFF's instead. So, they're on one of my Danelectro DC59 Pros, now. These just might make you happy. Tone? Pretty much like the R44s, IMO. Stiffness? Honestly, I think these things are even more flexible than the TI's that are on my Alembic Epic. Flexible enough that I have to make serious adjustments to my pick technique. And the 106B's are the heavy gauge set... As for actual tension? The package they came in, said 5kg per string (!
- Galli Jazz Flats; 45-105 gauge. Much as I like these on my EBMM 4HH Stingray Special? I don't think you would care for them. They're fairly "thumpy", IMO (which is OK by me; I like 'thumpy"), but... if you thought the La Bella LTTF's were too stiff? You won't care for the Galli's, either...
Other strings? Well, stiffness is a combination of gauge and, in large part, the diameter and shape of the core wire. Small diameter, round core wire is much more flexible than large diameter, hex core wire. And, with few exceptions, flats are typically large-for-their-gauge, hex core wire strings. So, there just aren't that many "fish" that you'd like, in Lake Flatwound... Some flats you might also think about;
- Roto SM77s; 40-100 gauge. Might be thumpy enough, but... most likely not flexible enough for you.
- La Bella 760FX; 39-96 gauge. I have these on my Dano Longhorn and my other DC59 Pro. They are definitely plenty thumpy (the 2 Dano's being semi-hollow body basses might have a little to do with it, though). And, fairly flexible, too, IMO. But, unless you can snoop around for a set of the long scale FX's? La Bella currently doesn't list the long scale set in their catalog; only the short scale set. Which is a shame...
- DR Legends; my only experience with these, is the short scale set that's on my headless Kramer Duke. They certainly have the low end tone; in fact, it's identical to the short scale GHS Boomers that they replaced. Their stiffness is almost identical to the Boomers, too. And those things were... STIFF.
-Pyramid Golds; I don't have Pyramids on anything at the moment. The "short scale" Pyramids that I bought, turned out to be just a hair too short for a new Guild Starfire I Bass. I can't speak to their long scale strings, but I did notice that the set I have, is identical to the "factory" strings on my German Hofner 500/2 Club Bass. And those things, while plenty thumpy, are not flexible - at all...
- Dunlops; no idea. Never tried those.
Bottom line? If it were me, I'd give the Dogal Jaco Carbonsteel Flats a try...
I thought pretty seriously about putting my extra set of short scale TI Jazz Flats on the Guild, but... that "flexible" bugbear raised it's head; the Guild just begs to be played with a pick, IMO... I had an extra set of GHS MS3120 Precision Flats in my Big Box O' Strings, so... I used those. They're medium scale, so they fit the Guild perfectly. And since they're fairly light gauge? They're not nearly as thumpy as the heavier gauge P-Flats on my '78 Fender P-Bass; but, TBH? Precision Flats aren't really all that "Old School" thumpy, anyway. They're near clones of the original, Squier-made Fender flats that were standard on Fender basses until the late '70s/early '80s. As such, they do have a good low end; but they also have lots of low-mids, mids, and even some highs - depending on the bass they're on. And, on my Guild? For the kind of music I play with it, I'm liking those strings a lot...
