Focal dystonia... How did it start for you?

[jdjk7]

I am seeking the input of those who suffer from focal dystonia/hand dystonia as it relates to playing. I'd like to hear direct experiences and descriptions about what the early signs felt like. I've searched the topic on TB, and while there's a good few pages of messages that mention the topic, most of it is either about Scott Devine or Victor Wooten.

I'll admit-- I'm interested in this topic because I had an experience at a gig that kind of freaked me out. Today's gig was the first one I've had in a month, and on the last song of the 4 hour gig, my index finger on my fretting (left) hand suddenly began slightly hyperextending as if it I was trying to point at something. What it sort of felt like to me was a cramp, or like the precursor to one-- it didn't hurt, but I just struggled to control my index finger for the rest of the song. I get cramps in my calves every now and then, and they sometimes feel exactly like this. I've probably only picked up my bass twice in the past month for brief song-learning sessions, so I otherwise have not been playing bass much. Beyond that, I don't practice super frequently or for super long periods of time.

Given all of these circumstances, I'm fairly certain that it was a harmless phenomenon. The only reason that it's freaked me out is that I've never gotten a cramp like that before. I've played many 4-hour gigs without anything like that. After I packed up my stuff, I took my bass out again and started playing unplugged, and I didn't experience the same thing.

I'm not trying to self diagnose with this thread, I'm more interested in hearing from those who have been diagnosed with the disease to describe how it felt and what the early signs were, because I feel like it'd be a good thing to watch out for, because now I am gonna be paying attention.

 

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subbed.

 

[red_rhino]

My guess is that every player experiences this once or twice. Some more than others.

I do know that if I’m physically active over a few days and fail to hydrate adequately, I will tend to get cramping in my calves, hamstrings, or feet. It’s not unreasonable to think that our hands could be similarly affected. Everyone’s different. Watch your hydration; if it persists, go see a real doctor.

(Disclaimer: I’m not a doctor. I don’t even play one on TV. My white lab coat? This old thing? Just something I threw on. You can put your clothes back on now.)

 

[CamJazzBass]

Maybe not focal dystonia. Could be dehydration. Maybe.

You say it was at the end of a gig and hadn’t played out in a month. I’ve gotten severe what I refer to as trigger finger on my fretting hand near the ends of gigs because I did not hydrate properly. I’m no expert, but I think if it was the focal thing, it would exhibit itself all the time and not just the end of a gig when fatigue and dehydration could be happening.

I hope for you this is it because it’s much easier to remedy. Try a high electrolyte beverage during the gig.

 

[ELG60]

Pickle juice is a non-sugared alternative which is used by the NFL to prevent and alleviate cramps. I've used it a number of times effectively. Works quickly.

Although this doesn't respond to the OP's question, the lack of endurance as a result of their limited playing time leading up to the engagement, could be a likely contributory factor.

It's worth keeping an eye on, just in case. It's weird that two bass players, Victor Wooten and Scott Devine both have that (afaik) rare disease.

 

[burgerdj]

Happens to me on most gigs, unfortunately. I’ve managed it with hydration and a couple of advil about an hour before playing. When it occurs, my left pointer finger seizes and bends toward my palm. Sometimes it makes playing pretty much impossible, but I can usually stretch out and get through. Occasionally my right hand will do the same thing and the onset is usually simultaneous. I’ve always thought it was an overuse or under-condition problem, but based on my family history who knows.

 

[Stewie]

Ive had to finish a song with just my left hand's ring finger. Talked to the crowd while I cranked the digits back to where they belonged . More water more water, more water

 

[bassicmike]

Ah, so there's a name for the hand cramping.

My thumb, either hand, wants to tuck into my palm, frequently triggered by repetitive fingering - a song with a static, repeating bass figure.

Some shaking out, some massage, a lot of water and we're good to go again.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

Not sure what your general scenario is like but I get away with a lot less at 59 than I did at 29, 39.

A month of low activity followed by a 4 hour gig? That would be a challenge for me.

Oh and to bassicmike’s point, THAT is why I don’t get OCD about open notes sounding different, positions or OFPF. Changing that up gives you micro breaks.

 

[Gopherbassist]

Pickle juice is a non-sugared alternative which is used by the NFL to prevent and alleviate cramps. I've used it a number of times effectively. Works quickly.

Although this doesn't respond to the OP's question, the lack of endurance as a result of their limited playing time leading up to the engagement, could be a likely contributory factor.

It's worth keeping an eye on, just in case. It's weird that two bass players, Victor Wooten and Scott Devine both have that (afaik) rare disease.

It's not very weird. Focal Dystonia is caused by a neurological tissue degradation that can develop from over use of a bodily action. It's common enough among musicians that there is a subcategory called Musician's Dystonia.







Those are three musicians with it that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Hurricane Jimmie]

You can put your clothes back on now.)

So Anyway, there is no dress code at Talk Bass.
Except no shorts and Croc's at a country club wedding gig.

No medical advice but regards and good health to the OP.

 

[Kubicki Fan]

Your 'calf symptoms' suggest dehydration.

A small muscle in your forearm probably had enough. Maybe your finger was pointing at the waterbottle?

 

[Carl Hillman]

You say this is the first gig in a while for you, but how much do you practice? The theory on focal dystonia is that extreme repetition from overpracticing leads to maladaptive brain plasticity.

I don't have it, but have known other musicians who do, and they were playing/practicing a lot. If you haven't been doing that, it is likely to just be a garden variety cramp.

 

[Root 5]

Famous classical guitarist Liona Boyd has focal dystonia. She had to stop playing concerts and the classical repertoire.

She has recreated herself as a singer and plays to her new level. Proud of her.

 

[jdjk7]

My guess is that every player experiences this once or twice. Some more than others.

I do know that if I’m physically active over a few days and fail to hydrate adequately, I will tend to get cramping in my calves, hamstrings, or feet. It’s not unreasonable to think that our hands could be similarly affected. Everyone’s different. Watch your hydration; if it persists, go see a real doctor.

(Disclaimer: I’m not a doctor. I don’t even play one on TV. My white lab coat? This old thing? Just something I threw on. You can put your clothes back on now.)

Maybe not focal dystonia. Could be dehydration. Maybe.

You say it was at the end of a gig and hadn’t played out in a month. I’ve gotten severe what I refer to as trigger finger on my fretting hand near the ends of gigs because I did not hydrate properly. I’m no expert, but I think if it was the focal thing, it would exhibit itself all the time and not just the end of a gig when fatigue and dehydration could be happening.

I hope for you this is it because it’s much easier to remedy. Try a high electrolyte beverage during the gig.

What later occurred to me is that, seeing as we're in a heat wave, I was hydrating a lot, but I didn't eat very much that day. I've read that over-hydration can also make cramps more likely, because excessive water consumption without replenishing the relevant minerals can leave you deficient and cause cramps to happen.

 

[jdjk7]

You say this is the first gig in a while for you, but how much do you practice? The theory on focal dystonia is that extreme repetition from overpracticing leads to maladaptive brain plasticity.

I don't have it, but have known other musicians who do, and they were playing/practicing a lot. If you haven't been doing that, it is likely to just be a garden variety cramp.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned that my concern is not really serious. The previous month has been a desert in my practice, because all of my bands went on hiatus for various reasons.

Before that, I was generally in about 1-3 days of rehearsal per week (2-9 hours) depending on band activity, plus maybe 0-2 hours of personal practice time per week. If I have a gig, it's usually 3 hours of playing. My gigs aren't super regular, usually a few per month.

I have no idea if the upper bound of that (~14 hours per week?) is an excessive amount of playing or not.

 

[Topkat13]

It could be a magnesium deficiency. I’m being serious. My hands used to cramp up all the time. My doc it has less to do with hydration and more to do with a magnesium deficiency. Do some research on it.

 

[Carl Hillman]

I have no idea if the upper bound of that (~14 hours per week?) is an excessive amount of playing or not.

That sounds perfectly reasonable.

The folks I know who got it were putting in 40 hours a week, or more, for years.

 

[Rich Fiscus]

Focal dystonia is, by definition, limited to a particular area of your body. If it were occurring in both your hands and legs it would just be dystonia, and almost certainly a sign of some more serious underlying neurological condition. Unless you have other mystery symptoms, I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[CamJazzBass]

What later occurred to me is that, seeing as we're in a heat wave, I was hydrating a lot, but I didn't eat very much that day. I've read that over-hydration can also make cramps more likely, because excessive water consumption without replenishing the relevant minerals can leave you deficient and cause cramps to happen.

Yes, its not about just drinking fluids all day. That helps, but you need some food as well. I learned that they hard way. I've dehydrated to the point of almost having a stroke three times. Doc says after it happens once or twice, you are more prone that others to have it happen again. I don't if he means that in a biological way or if he was hinting that I am stupid. In fairness, it was different each time. First time was playing industrial league softball all day once in my 20's and drinking maybe a half bottle of Gatorade. Dumb. Second time was due to a wicket intestinal illness and I just couldn't eat or drink. Third time was dumb once again. Summer outdoor gig and though I knew it would be hot, I didn't think it would be that hot since it was October and I had also been taking medicine for a cold all week. That dehydrates you as well. Another dumb by me. The one thing in common with all three instances was I did not eat much if any food before it happened.