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Fodera Club Part III

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#681
harrybosch said:
I agree with some of what Ken is saying. I have never heard mention that the reason a longer scale is used is so that one could use lighter strings to get better tone. Since tone is subjective, how can this be a factual statement? It might be one reason but not the driving reason as has been marketed for years. Further, it's been my experience that thinner strings, ie light guaged strings, sound thinner no matter the tension. I don't like the sound of thin strings. Whether the thicker guaged strings have a "thump" or poor fundamental is of no concern to me if it gets the tone I want.
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Maybe what you mean to argue is that ultimately, subjective results are what matter to you. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Facts and subjectivity are not mutually exclusive. The fact is, there is a huge benefit to using lighter strings on a longer scale bass. It doesn't mean it's better. My point is that to suggest that this has nothing to do with why you make longer scale basses is silly. So the marketing strategy has surrounded the notion that longer is tighter and that's why it's done...what does that mean? Nothing, really. Why would the industry bother trying to educate the market in the subtleties of stretched-string physics? "Tired of that floppy B string? Try our new extra-long scale basses!" Or maybe just try a different string. That might make as much difference.

Stringed instruments all work essentially the same way. There seems to be a school of thought that wants to suggest otherwise. Another part of why a longer scale bass sounds different, even with the SAME gauge strings, is the relationship between transverse and longitudinal mode vibrations. (been through this one already too) Tension does not effect the latter, only length does. Longer string = lower pitched longitudinal vibration and that can and does have a big effect on the sound of the string. This is the primary reason why the drop D tuning sounds the way it does. You're not changing the pitch of the longitudinal mode by loosening the string.

Once you get your result, all the rest of it is hypothesis, really. Some easily provable, and some not. There's no need to prove anything until you have to repeat the success. That's really the crux of it. But because someone doesn't BELIEVE in a certain factor based on a historical concensus is not an argument for the existence or absensce of an effect due to a phenomenon. The proof is in the result. The question of "why did that result happen" isn't really important to answer as long as you can get the result every time. But to theorize about is a perfectly appropriate thing to do if you do it in an educated way. The important thing in my mind is not to just assume what you've always assumed. That would be, in fact, the antithesis of scientific thinking.

As for taking jabs....honestly I don't think I am. Taking offense to someone's off color remark is in no way a "jab". I suppose the "snotty" remark might be on the cusp...sorry for that. It wasn't meant as in insult. It was just a bad word choice to describe how I perceived the tone of the comments. Maybe innapropriate or unnecessary would have been better.
 
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#683
Pontiff, I agree that longer scale does mean you can use lighter strings to achieve a tension more similar to a 34" scale and that does result in a tone that is more clear and reproduces more of the fundamental. That tone for me just hasn't been able to fill up a track or have the same impact bigger strings on a 34" scale bass has. It sounds nice in a solo setting but lacks in a full band setting(for me). Using the same strings on a 35" definitely cleans up the sound a bit by thinning it out, which is another tone I don't like. My comment was only to say that manufacturers have pretty much only marketed the fact that a longer scale leads to more tension which leads to better B strings. Of course, my experience has found a lot of 35" scale instruments with poor B strings, including several Fodera's.
 
#684
I hear you and I agree. It certainly has been marketed that way. It's not untrue. And, as we've established, it's not the whole picture. It makes me think of this add I just saw for Acura's acoustical noise reduction system. Where instead of just baffles and mufflers and what have you, they actually try to listen to the noise from the engine (or the car or whatever) and produce an opposite to cancel it out. They say, "we produce opposing frequencies" to reduce the noise, yada yada. That's not even close being all there is to how something like that actually works. It's frequency, amplitude, phase, source location....
But the result is what the customers appreciate...and all most of them really care about. Acura is not going to bother confusing them with more information, factual or not.
 
#685
Since we are still on this topic. I have a question.

Why is it that when the bass is really cold (outdoor gig, in the basement, blah blah blah) it feels really stiff to play? Likewise, once it "warmed up", it feels loose and relaxed? I always thought it was because of the contraction of the cold strings, but since the length or gauge of the string doesn't change, why does it feel like it has?


**Edit**- Or is that all in my head/hands?
 
#686
Bear in mind that the temperature of the strings effects what tension they need to be in order to be at pitch. The colder the string, the higher the tension needs to be in order to be at pitch. Temperature is a huge factor in the speed of sound which is literally what is at play here. That might be what you're feeling.

On the other hand, it could be that the neck on your bass pulls up when it's cold. Mine does the opposite. My strings are way lower at pitch if the bass gets really cold.
 
#687
thepontif said:
Bear in mind that the temperature of the strings effects what tension they need to be in order to be at pitch. The colder the string, the higher the tension needs to be in order to be at pitch. Temperature is a huge factor in the speed of sound which is literally what is at play here. That might be what you're feeling.

On the other hand, it could be that the neck on your bass pulls up when it's cold. Mine does the opposite. My strings are way lower at pitch if the bass gets really cold.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm. Good point. I guess that is why as the bass warms up, you tend to go flat and when it gets cold, the bass goes sharp. I never thought about that. I do find it weird (mostly because I cannot understand) that even though the scale length, pitch of the note and gauge of string don't change, the tension does.

As for the neck, it stays uber stable. There is slight change, but nothing that would even come close to needing any kind of adjustment for the gig.

I will have to ponder the temperature vs. pitch thing a bit. Thanks Mike!
 
#688
Hi guys and within a year I managed to get me another Fodera namely a really cool begin 90s Emperor 36" bass:hyper:
A guy on this forum told me when I bought my NYC I would go after a "custom" model...so yes he was right:p Didnt expect it to be so soon tho... hehe
It's an ash maple/maple elite bass very similar to what James Genus and Chris Tarry play on, my main inspiration for getting myself a Fodera in the first place.
The one I got is pretty banged up but has great mojo!
I'm planning to clean it up as time passes, that means getting a refret done and a refinnish. I would go about that when the frets are worn out basically wich will take some time still.
It has bart pickups and what I'm guessing a haslab 2 band preamp. I have some pics of it from the guy who sold me the instrument.
serial is E5B837 maybe someone has an idea of what year that is?

Thanks!
 

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#689
October 8th, 1993. Enjoy!

Jason

Brams77 said:
Hi guys and within a year I managed to get me another Fodera namely a really cool begin 90s Emperor 36" bass:hyper:
A guy on this forum told me when I bought my NYC I would go after a "custom" model...so yes he was right:p Didnt expect it to be so soon tho... hehe
It's an ash maple/maple elite bass very similar to what James Genus and Chris Tarry play on, my main inspiration for getting myself a Fodera in the first place.
The one I got is pretty banged up but has great mojo!
I'm planning to clean it up as time passes, that means getting a refret done and a refinnish. I would go about that when the frets are worn out basically wich will take some time still.
It has bart pickups and what I'm guessing a haslab 2 band preamp. I have some pics of it from the guy who sold me the instrument.
serial is E5B837 maybe someone has an idea of what year that is?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
#690
Brams77 said:
Hi guys and within a year I managed to get me another Fodera namely a really cool begin 90s Emperor 36" bass:hyper:
A guy on this forum told me when I bought my NYC I would go after a "custom" model...so yes he was right:p Didnt expect it to be so soon tho... hehe
It's an ash maple/maple elite bass very similar to what James Genus and Chris Tarry play on, my main inspiration for getting myself a Fodera in the first place.
The one I got is pretty banged up but has great mojo!
I'm planning to clean it up as time passes, that means getting a refret done and a refinnish. I would go about that when the frets are worn out basically wich will take some time still.
It has bart pickups and what I'm guessing a haslab 2 band preamp. I have some pics of it from the guy who sold me the instrument.
serial is E5B837 maybe someone has an idea of what year that is?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

That is awesome! Great bass. I love the Emperor body!!!! So classy and elegant.
 
#692
chris.gotfunk said:
This is good reading for sure. But, I just laughed at realizing this all started from someone asking about a 6-string dovetail Fodera. I love this site for just this reason. Carry on!:bassist:
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Oh yeah.

I think the only way for this argument to be sorted out is for me to order three six string Emporer Deluxes, one with a 34" scale, one with a 35" scale, and one with a 36" scale and a balsa wood top (just to see what happens to that balsa wood under tension).

Anyone wanna buy a kidney?
 
#693
Belka said:
Oh yeah.

I think the only way for this argument to be sorted out is for me to order three six string Emporer Deluxes, one with a 34" scale, one with a 35" scale, and one with a 36" scale and a balsa wood top (just to see what happens to that balsa wood under tension).

Anyone wanna buy a kidney?
Click to expand...

Hahahha, I was thinking the same thing... minus the kidney part. I think it would be an awesome research project if 3 of us bought one all made from the same tree in those specs and see what the differences are. Of course, that still would not prove anything since all wood is different... hence why some basses of the same make sound better than others.
 
#697
Check the online store...those basses are all available and yes, some of them are fretless! The prices are list price. You can always contact the shop if you have interest in any of them and we can talk "street" price.

[email protected]

Cheers!

moresbum said:
Dear Jason, Do you have plan to build NYC fretless? And is its price posted on the web list price? Thanks!
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#698
I forgot to post my new Emperor - bought before my water heater went south ..

It's very different from my Monarch - a great bass, love the playability and tone!
 

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