Fodera Imperial Elite 5-String Available!

[Just Thumpin']

Folks, for those of you that have been looking for a Fodera but cannot stand the wait, last evening when I was picking up one of my Monarchs (that Joey had been working on), they were just putting the finishing touches on a brand new Essence Series Imperial Elite 5-String that will be available directly through the shop starting today. It hasn't even been posted on their website yet (that should happen later this afternoon)!

This thing is a MONSTER. As far as I can remember it has the following specs...

Neck-through Elite Imperial Body
34 inch scale
Ash neck and solid ash body wings
Seymour Duncan Dual Coils (black plastic covers)
Mike Pope 3-band electronics
Rosewood veneer on the headstock

If you are interested, I would call when the shop opens this morning as I am sure they will sell it very quickly.

 

[KJung]

You know, I have to comment here. I have a peer who has been waiting for over 3 years for his Fodera, and it's still not in sight. He was most recently told that 'Vinnie was going on vacation for a few weeks, and will get back to him about progress when he returns'.

So let me understand this. They have customers with orders that are YEARS behind the original promised date, and they are building 'spec' instruments to sell on the site?

This is strange and not right. I am becoming more and more unimpressed with these guys.

 

[FL Knifemaker]

You know, I have to comment here. I have a peer who has been waiting for over 3 years for his Fodera, and it's still not in sight. He was most recently told that 'Vinnie was going on vacation for a few weeks, and will get back to him about progress when he returns'.

So let me understand this. They have customers with orders that are YEARS behind the original promised date, and they are building 'spec' instruments to sell on the site?

This is strange and not right. I am becoming more and more unimpressed with these guys.

It might not be a spec instrument, it could be a last minute order cancellation. Just out of curiousity, are you given a price or balance due as well as a delivery date when the order is placed?? I know this has bitten many custom knifemakers. Materials go up in price, their knives go up in value on the secondary market. Once that happens, building overdue orders at OLD pricing becomes very tough for business. For the most part, I quit accepting custom orders for that very reason. It also hampers the development of new designs and STIFLES creativity. It's nice to have plenty of work lined up, however....... For a small business, managing a large backlog of labor intensive, custom ordered product becomes a full time job in itself.

 

[KJung]

It might not be a spec instrument, it could be a last minute order cancellation. Just out of curiousity, are you given a price or balance due as well as a delivery date when the order is placed?? I know this has bitten many custom knifemakers. Materials go up in price, their knives go up in value on the secondary market. Once that happens, building overdue orders at OLD pricing becomes very tough for business. I quit accepting orders for just that reason. It also hampers the development of new designs and STIFLES creativity. It's nice to have plenty of work lined up, however....... For a small business, managing a large backlog of labor intensive, custom ordered product becomes a full time job in itself.

If it's an Essence model, it's a spec instrument. That is VERY uncool.

The price is fixed at the order date. I agree, if it takes you 4 years to get an order out, you can get in some pricing trouble. It's just a bad business model all the way around.

I would think their retailers (who have some very unhappy customers at the moment) would not be very happy about them finishing these Essence Spec basses when their customers' custom orders get later by the year.

 

[FL Knifemaker]

If it's an Essence model, it's a spec instrument. That is VERY uncool.

The price is fixed at the order date. I agree, if it takes you 4 years to get an order out, you can get in some pricing trouble. It's just a bad business model all the way around.

I would think their retailers (who have some very unhappy customers at the moment) would not be very happy about them finishing these Essence Spec basses when their customers' custom orders get later by the year.

I agree with you on the bad business model. Once you become behind on an order list like that, it's VERY hard to dig yourself out from under it.

Do the same people build the Essence spec basses that build the full blown customs?? It's probably much easier for them to deliver a few of their lower end basses each month to pay the bills. This is especially true of all the customs are partially paid for with deposits. I'm not saying what's right or wrong, just pointing out what might be going from personal experience

 

[KJung]

I agree with you on the bad business model. Once you become behind on an order list like that, it's VERY hard to dig yourself out from under it.

Do the same people build the Essence spec basses that build the full blown customs?? It's probably much easier for them to deliver a few of their lower end basses each month to pay the bills. This is especially true of all the customs are partially paid for with deposits. I'm not saying what's right or wrong, just pointing out what might be going from personal experience

From the description on the site, the Essence models are identical to any other 'custom order', except that Vinnie and Joey do the spec on them. I believe they cost the same as if you happened to custom order the same spec. Strange.

 

[FL Knifemaker]

From the description on the site, the Essence models are identical to any other 'custom order', except that Vinnie and Joey do the spec on them. I believe they cost the same as if you happened to custom order the same spec. Strange.

It could be that they had the components ready to finish one. When you have bills to pay, that might just take priority over the custom order list. For custom orders you often have to wait for materials to arrive, manufacturing problems arrise, delays happen. A spec item can be built with much fewer problems, probably in small groups. For two years I had to post available product for sale while customers were waiting for orders. I would contact them, explain the situation and do my best to keep everyone happy. I don't have a distribution network so my dealings were direct with my customers. It's not a fun position to be in. Once out from under it, it feels like the weight of the world was lifted from my shoulders

 

[Just Thumpin']

From the description on the site, the Essence models are identical to any other 'custom order', except that Vinnie and Joey do the spec on them. I believe they cost the same as if you happened to custom order the same spec. Strange.

These are basses that they fit in between the production of their regular custom orders. It makes a lot of sense if you visit the shop and watch how they produce basses. There are times when they have an extra neck available, or an extra piece of body wood and some small blocks of free time that allow them to produce an Essence Bass.

At any given time they may have 10-20 custom orders in various stages of construction -- they shouldn't be allowed the time to slot in one Essence Bass into their schedule?

I know the wait for a custom Fodera can be hard and there are stories of three year waits and other nightmares, however, my personal experience with Fodera has been much different. My custom Yin Yang was delivered one month later than promised -- not a big deal IMHO. And, even though the entire time for the production of my Yin Yang was close to two years, that's just the way it is...the basses are true works of art. Art takes time and and does not necessarily follow traditional business models and/or production schedules.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You know, I have to comment here. I have a peer who has been waiting for over 3 years for his Fodera, and it's still not in sight. He was most recently told that 'Vinnie was going on vacation for a few weeks, and will get back to him about progress when he returns'.

So let me understand this. They have customers with orders that are YEARS behind the original promised date, and they are building 'spec' instruments to sell on the site?

This is strange and not right. I am becoming more and more unimpressed with these guys.

I'm always reminded of the movie "Contact" with Jodie Foster when this issue comes up. When the first space travel machine blows up, her benefactor tells her there was a second built simultaneously. Something about if one is good two is better.

When you're in a production mode it makes sense to do multiples. Plus if you end up with spare parts, it doesn't make sense to have them sitting around. Why not make a bass to go along with them?



Some customers and dealers would love to have a spec Fodera. I'll say that Brubaker builds spec basses along with custom orders. It makes sense to try to keep up with that demand too.

 

[KJung]

These are basses that they fit in between the production of their regular custom orders. It makes a lot of sense if you visit the shop and watch how they produce basses. There are times when they have an extra neck available, or an extra piece of body wood and some small blocks of free time that allow them to produce an Essence Bass.

At any given time they may have 10-20 custom orders in various stages of construction -- they shouldn't be allowed the time to slot in one Essence Bass into their schedule?

I know the wait for a custom Fodera can be hard and there are stories of three year waits and other nightmares, however, my personal experience with Fodera has been much different. My custom Yin Yang was delivered one month later than promised -- not a big deal IMHO. And, even though the entire time for the production of my Yin Yang was close to two years, that's just the way it is...the basses are true works of art. Art takes time and and does not necessarily follow traditional business models and/or production schedules.

Wouldn't it be better to 'slot' an instrument that someone has been waiting 3 years for than a spec instrument. Sorry. Also, the actual production time for these basses is quite short from what I understand. It's the order backups that have gotten them in trouble.

 

[ibanezcollector]

I will have to agree with Kjung on this issue. If there so backed up that there is a 3 year plus waiting list, the last thing they should be doing is working on stock basses.

I know people will wait for them but what they really need to do is hire some help..

In my eyes and I will get flamed for this, I dont see why anyone would wait that long. I know they make some nice basses ive played a few, there pretty but not for me.


Here is how it would run down for me..

Place order - Excited
Wait - Excited
Wait - Excited
Christmas - Already
Wait - Yawn
Wait - Start building the pedestal this will be placed upon
Wait - Hey Mr Rabbit is it Easter already
Wait - Pedestal is getting bigger
Wait - Blow off Fireworks
Wait - Wow this pedestal is getting huge
Wait - Hey look there is my top wood
Wait - Pedestal has now turned into its own entity
Wait - Gooble Gooble Gooble
Wait - This Sucks
Wait - He look pictures of my neck wood
Wait - Why did I do this
Wait - He Christmas Again
Wait - I payed how much
Wait - Snow Sucks
Wait - Hey look finally some progress
Wait - Happy Valentines Day
Wait
Wait
Wait
Wait
Wait.....


Finally upon recieving it I would have such huge standards for this bass to meet and if I found one small little imperfection anywhere it would eat me alive since I gassed, I waited, I built the pedestal so big for this instrument.

My 2 cents LOL

 

[Marlat]

Maybe they should make the stock basses to "lend" to their custom order customers while they wait the three years for their custom bass. Kinda like a courtesy car from your dealer when you car is getting serviced!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I will have to agree with Kjung on this issue. If there so backed up that there is a 3 year plus waiting list, the last thing they should be doing is working on stock basses.

I know people will wait for them but what they really need to do is hire some help..

In my eyes and I will get flamed for this, I dont see why anyone would wait that long. I know they make some nice basses ive played a few, there pretty but not for me.


Here is how it would run down for me..

Place order - Excited
Wait - Excited
Wait - Excited
Christmas - Already
Wait - Yawn
Wait - Start building the pedestal this will be placed upon
Wait - Hey Mr Rabbit is it Easter already
Wait - Pedestal is getting bigger
Wait - Blow off Fireworks
Wait - Wow this pedestal is getting huge
Wait - Hey look there is my top wood
Wait - Pedestal has now turned into its own entity
Wait - Gooble Gooble Gooble
Wait - This Sucks
Wait - He look pictures of my neck wood
Wait - Why did I do this
Wait - He Christmas Again
Wait - I payed how much
Wait - Snow Sucks
Wait - Hey look finally some progress
Wait - Happy Valentines Day
Wait
Wait
Wait
Wait
Wait.....


Finally upon recieving it I would have such huge standards for this bass to meet and if I found one small little imperfection anywhere it would eat me alive since I gassed, I waited, I built the pedestal so big for this instrument.

My 2 cents LOL

No flame here. I can understand your POV. OTOH I can also understand the POV of someone whose boat they do float... that is why they'd wait that long.

 

[Brad Johnson]

A general question... just curious... should they never build a spec instrument? If it's somehow okay to build one, when should they do it? Three years from now?

 

[Just Thumpin']

Also, the actual production time for these basses is quite short from what I understand. It's the order backups that have gotten them in trouble.

Actually, I visited my Yin Yang several times during its build over a period of many months. If all Vinny and Joey did was work on one bass straight through it would take 40 - 50 hours, but they never work that way. They do necks for a couple of weeks, cut bodies for a couple of weeks, sort and cut rough lumber for some time, spray basses for a week, etc. So, a bass could easily be in production for 6 months start to finish.

As to your friend's specific situation, I have no idea what to say. Perhaps his ordered involved woods that were rare, or something else like that?

 

[KJung]

A general question... just curious... should they never build a spec instrument? If it's somehow okay to build one, when should they do it? Three years from now?

IMO, when they are constantly hitting the delivery times promised to their custom customers, and when they get their customer service together enough to ACCURATELY AND REGULARLY communicate to the customers (AND retailers) regarding the status of the production of the custom order basses (this is absolutely horrible at the moment).

IMO and IME, my business model hero Roger Sadowsky has this down to an art. He delivers his custom basses in 8 months to the MINUTE, as promised, and the communication from the shop is fantastic as the instrument is getting ready to be slotted for production and actually in production. He then produces a handful of spec instruments which are listed for sale every month or two. Perfect.

There is NO problem building spec instruments (it's actually a GREAT idea), as long as you are taking care of your custom customers

 

[KJung]

Actually, I visited my Yin Yang several times during its build over a period of many months. If all Vinny and Joey did was work on one bass straight through it would take 40 - 50 hours, but they never work that way. They do necks for a couple of weeks, cut bodies for a couple of weeks, sort and cut rough lumber for some time, spray basses for a week, etc. So, a bass could easily be in production for 6 months start to finish.

As to your friend's specific situation, I have no idea what to say. Perhaps his ordered involved woods that were rare, or something else like that?

My peers issue is not at all unique, and his bass is a very basic spec.

Sorry, don't mean to hammer on them, but the idea of them even THINKING about direct sale spec instruments given the delivery situation and the general sloppiness of that shop's communication and customer service kind of makes me crazy as a small business owner.

 

[Brad Johnson]

IMO, when they are constantly hitting the delivery times promised to their custom customers, and when they get their customer service together enough to ACCURATELY AND REGULARLY communicate to the customers (AND retailers) regarding the status of the production of the custom order basses (this is absolutely horrible at the moment).

IMO and IME, my business model hero Roger Sadowsky has this down to an art. He delivers his custom basses in 8 months to the MINUTE, as promised, and the communication from the shop is fantastic as the instrument is getting ready to be slotted for production and actually in production. He then produces a handful of spec instruments which are listed for sale every month or two. Perfect.

There is NO problem building spec instruments (it's actually a GREAT idea), as long as you are taking care of your custom customers

Entirely different build process... not really a good example IMO. Not saying one or the other is better but they are most definitely different.

 

[KJung]

Entirely different build process... not really a good example IMO. Not saying one or the other is better but they are most definitely different.

I did not mean to equate the build processes. It's all about hitting deadlines (whether that is 2 years or 5 years or 3 months), and clearly communicating the process to the customer.

Some luthiers are GREAT with this (MTD, Skjold, Sadowsky), and a few are horrible

 

[FL Knifemaker]

It's the order backups that have gotten them in trouble.

It's human nature. A small company or one man operation feels a certain level of comfort in having a backlog. It's very easy to over commit. In my experience, I've found it much better to turn down work than make promises I may not be able to keep. Catering to customers by producing a customer spec'ed product can become very complicated especially while maintaining your reputation for quality. It might be beneficial to cut back on the customer spec'ed work and increase the "semi custom" type product. No matter what, you need to have faith in your product and know there will be customers ready to buy your work no matter what you produce, at the pace you can produce it. As I said before, getting out from under a backlog especially where deposits are involved is tough.....no matter what your product is.