Fodera Imperial: Good Playing, Pedestrian Tone

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Actually, and maybe a little off topic...

The P bass is actually quite mistakable. In fact, a lot more folks than you might think can't tell which is a P bass and which is a Jazz bass running just the neck pickup in a blind test. They may be able to tell that they sound slightly different, but they'd have a much harder time identifying which is the P bass and which is the Jazz bass at a better rate than just guessing.

In fact, my L2K without frets was hard to tell from a P bass soloing just the front PU running it in parallel mode.
Even more so my jaco pastorius jazz bass which is 99.125% pure precision bass on just the neck pickup. And so on with a lot of basses.

Personally, the only bass I've actually been able to identify in a blind listening test, better than just chance, is the rickenbacker 4001/3. And even that I get wrong half the time, even though I owned several ricks and gigged with them for a number of years. If you put flats on the rick, I'm screwed.

Anyway, I'm not saying this to be contrarian, but more to say the kind of "bland" tone of the Fodera is probably intentional. Kind of like the somewhat indistinct tone of a precision bass, and other basses that are similar to it just running one pickup in the neck position, is intentional. It's a good neutral sound that fits in a lot of different styles of music.

Certain styles, like the TuMiniNotes kind of thing, are better suited to a sharper tone, like the jazz bass soloed on the rear pickup, and so on. But if you're looking for a bass to cover the most bases all at once, that kind of tone is a good one.

L

Mh .. I’d say yes and no .. my jazz bass can as well produce a fairly good P-bass tone but in the music recorded a jazz bass is normally used with settings that place its tone away from that of a P-bass and, in any case, it’s still possible to distinguish amongst them, the P-bass invariably being more “bassy” and the J-bass more “growly”.
With good practice and hears, if the bass player plays the same tune, with the same setup and strings and having care to give each note the same strength and flavour, it’s quite possible to guess which bass is which.
In the field of the boutique basses, it is also possible to understand where a Carl Thompson is used and the same applies, in my opinion, to Ken Smith and to the old Tobias basses.
Now it’s more Fodera time; well, then, I would expect more from my Ferrari-costing bass, not only an outstanding construction with the use of various combinations of exotic woods coupled with a “bland” or “neutral” tone .. simply put, I would expect a nice, peculiar tone l could always be proud of and distinguishing my investment from that of other, cheaper instruments, especially if we talk about bolt-on models.
That’s why, deciding to make an important investment in this field, I likely wouldn’t go any further than the Fender CS; top-notch Fender tone, which I like (lot of inflation, ok, but who can honestly say that the tone of a P or of a J bass isn’t pleasant?), with an improved manufacturing process and, hence, instrument’s playability at, likely, the right price.
Or, with more or less the same expenditure, I’d towards Elrick (Icon or Evo PJ models).

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

A Fodera P will sound like a P and play like a Fodera (i.e. amazing). I nonetheless sold mine to help pay for a Monarch Standard with dual coils, which I prefer. I don't think it has a particular tonal profile, a la a Rick or Alembic (also great basses), rather, I think it naturally has an open, neutral tone that can be adjusted to produce a lot of variety.

Well, if we want to put it this way then, I’d say that a Fender CS P will definitely sound as a P and play very, very well at a significantly lower price than that of a Fodera so there should be no point in buying this particular model of Fodera bass.

 

[JW56789]

Foderas are wonderful instruments, and I've learned to not try and get much of a sense of what they sound like via YouTube videos played back over my computer speakers . . . . . . and every builder out there is at the mercy of wood: Some are just going to sound better than others. That's the magic and frustration of wood.

But, if you look at 3/4's of the 'boutique' (I hate that word, I prefer small builder) bass makers, they all use the same 2 or 3 brands of hardware, the same 5 or 6 pickup and tone network / preamp brands, and a lot of the same woods and construction methods. Although they'll all show the particular feature(s) this builder or that builder is known for, a lot of them . . . . . can sound more alike than most would like to admit.

That's a wonderful axe, but I would not get too shook up about it unless I (or you) was trying it out in person through an amp I know. THEN you could tell.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

IMHO, simply based upon the video, possibly the recording was a bit amiss regarding recording, amp, etc., controls. I can't imagine that instrument really sounds that dull.

Listening to many recordings from A. Jackson with S. Khan, for example, I may be brought to think that is the standard Fodera tone .. and that’s what I believe it is in fact.

 

[Chad Michael]

This one sounds good to me.....

 

[Blueinred]

I agree, Doc, but just for this video. I've heard Foderas sound way better, live and on other videos (Tom Kennedy with Mike Stern). My reluctance to buy a new Fodera would come from the loss of resale value as soon as you take possession. Like driving a new Escalade off the lot. Thousands of dollars just vanish in thin air. And for the same amount of money, you could buy 8 of these, in several different colors. But that's just me.



Or 5 of these:

 

[Papuzzo]

Guys, it's just one video. It is impossible to draw conclusions about how a Fodera sounds from a video. Think about all the factors that go into producing sound from a bass. First there is the construction, the electronics, the strings, the cord, the amp, the cab, the room, and so on. Then there is the recording from the video, which is a whole other can of worms. But most importantly, there is the bassist. Different bassists can make the same bass sound remarkably different. Anthony Jackson can make a squier bass sound amazing and I can make a Fodera sound like fresh alien poo. So, judging the quality and sound of a bass from a YouTube video seems like the worst way to evaluate a bass.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Guys, it's just one video. It is impossible to draw conclusions about how a Fodera sounds from a video. Think about all the factors that go into producing sound from a bass. First there is the construction, the electronics, the strings, the cord, the amp, the cab, the room, and so on. Then there is the recording from the video, which is a whole other can of worms. But most importantly, there is the bassist. Different bassists can make the same bass sound remarkably different. Anthony Jackson can make a squier bass sound amazing and I can make a Fodera sound like fresh alien poo. So, judging the quality and sound of a bass from a YouTube video seems like the worst way to evaluate a bass.

Abraham Laboriel can or could make a Squier sound very pleasantly for sure .. got some doubts, personally, about Mr. A. Jackson.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I agree, Doc, but just for this video. I've heard Foderas sound way better, live and on other videos (Tom Kennedy with Mike Stern). My reluctance to buy a new Fodera would come from the loss of resale value as soon as you take possession. Like driving a new Escalade of the lot. Thousands of dollars just vanish in thin air. And for the same amount of money, you could buy 8 of these, in several different colors. But that's just me.



Or 5 of these:

Off topic, Sires are crazy bang for the buck.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Abraham Laboriel can or could make a Squier sound very pleasantly for sure .. got some doubts, personally, about Mr. A. Jackson.

Hey you don’t like Anthony Jackson? All I can say is back in 1958, there were probably a few guys who thought Sofia Loren was ugly too.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

This one sounds good to me.....

Mr. Araujo is Fodera’s ideal demographic. He will naturally sound great playing one.

 

[Chad Michael]

Anthony, this is good stuff.

 

[Ace Of Bass]

You point out the fundamental contradiction of mass marketing a “boutique” bass. At its conception, Fodera was a small company, run out of a small shop, and local buyers, most of whom were pros, met with Vinnie and Joey to hash out what they wanted. This resulted in a pretty high percentage, not without misses, of customers getting what they envisioned. The safest way to sell Fodera through Sweetwater is to stick to the Standards, and more or less aim for an active Jazz tone with options. That is pretty much what Sweetwater does. Anything else will have enough variables to produce an unacceptable number of dissatisfied customers.

I think makers like Spector, MTD, Ken Smith, or Sadowsky, whose basses have much more uniform tones, are easier to buy blind.

+1 on sticking to the Standards at Sweetwater, though I’m pretty sure that’s what he was talking about, and that’s kinda the model that I’ve been flirting with getting..and I think you’re right about Smiths and Spectors...it seems their electronics provide perhaps less nuanced uniformity?..not sure about buying MTDs blind though....I had two...one was way too bright overall, the other one was pretty much perfect for me....that’s actually the reason I’m considering a Standard because pretty much all the models I e heard they have sounded excellent across the board and very similar except when the fingerboard wood was different..

 

[Dr. Cheese]

+1 on sticking to the Standards at Sweetwater, though I’m pretty sure that’s what he was talking about, and that’s kinda the model that I’ve been flirting with getting..and I think you’re right about Smiths and Spectors...it seems their electronics provide perhaps less nuanced uniformity?..not sure about buying MTDs blind though....I had two...one was way too bright overall, the other one was pretty much perfect for me....that’s actually the reason I’m considering a Standard because pretty much all the models I e heard they have sounded excellent across the board and very similar except when the fingerboard wood was different..

Yeah, MTD is not as good an example as Ken Smith, Sadowsky, and Spector. Those Fodera Standards are nice. My only issue is that they be pretty heavy. One on. The Sweetwater page is 11 lbs! If you don’t mind a wide strap, or sit a lot, like me, you should be fine.

 

[Ace Of Bass]

Off topic, Sires are crazy bang for the buck.

Yeah...they make buying a J bass most other places seem kinda silly to me when I think about how impressive they are sometimes...at that price it just almost makes too much sense to have one laying around somewhere..

 

[Ace Of Bass]

Yeah, MTD is not as good an example as Ken Smith, Sadowsky, and Spector. Those Fodera Standards are nice. My only issue is that they be pretty heavy. One on. The Sweetwater page is 11 lbs! If you don’t mind a wide strap, or sit a lot, like me, you should be fine.

My beloved ‘73 Jazz was almost 12 pounds...used to wear me out when I was in bad shape...

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

Hey you don’t like Anthony Jackson? All I can say is back in 1958, there were probably a few guys who thought Sofia Loren was ugly too.

Yes I don’t particularly like him and, especially, I don’t think he can be presented as a bass-player characterised by a bass tone which can be considered noteworthy unless, by doing so, it is implicitly meant that Fodera basses are characterised by a particularly nice tone, which may make the two things going together.
I wanted to send a link to an album from the Gary Burton New Quartet of 1973 where Abe Laboriel (more or less same generation of A. Jackson) plays furiously with a super-powerful, albeit controlled tone, without using any particularly fancy instrument (I believe it may have been a kind of P-bass derived instrument).
Unfortunately there’s no YouTube link for this album which name is simply Gary Burton New Quartet.
My suggestion is give a listen to the album tracks and then to Auxiliary Police from S. Khan, for example; I’d be curious to know what’s the judgement emerging from this about which one is the best bass tone overall.
Coming back to Sophia Loren, women are women; men’s desire for women and his origins are somehow often going beyond the reach of our conscious mind (I believe, the same happens to women).
That’s why, I’m afraid, I don’t believe that your attempt to assimilate musical and “amorous” inclinations stands up.
In any case, you have initiated a thread being dubious about Fodera basses tone; we are commenting.
My statement is that what we can hear in the video is what generally can be heard on recordings where Fodera basses are used, so I tend to second the spirit with which you have initiated the thread

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Yes I don’t particularly like him and, especially, I don’t think he can be presented as a bass-player characterised by a bass tone which can be considered noteworthy unless, by doing so, it is implicitly meant that Fodera basses are characterised by a particularly nice tone, which may make the two things going together.
I wanted to send a link to an album from the Gary Burton New Quartet of 1973 where Abe Laboriel (more it less same generation of A. Jackson) plays furiously with a super-powerful, albeit controlled tone, without using any particularly fancy instrument (I believe it may have been a kind of P-bass derived instrument).
Unfortunately there’s no YouTube link for this album which name is simply Gary Burton New Quartet.
My suggestion is give a listen to the album tracks and then to Auxiliary Police from S. Khan, for example; I’d curious to know what’s the judgement emerging from this about which one is the best bass tone overall.
Coming back to Sophia Loren, women are women; men’s desire for women and his origins are somehow often going beyond the reach of our conscious mind (I believe, the same happens to women).
That’s why, I’m afraid, I don’t believe that your attempt to assimilate musical and “amorous” inclinations stands up.
In any case, you have initiated a thread being dubious about Fodera basses tone; we are commenting.
My statement is that what we can hear in the video is what generally can be heard on recordings where Fodera basses are used, so I tend to second the spirit with which you have initiated the thread

The funny thing is Anthony Jackson created his early influential recording where he went below E on a detuned Fender Jazz with a Precision neck. All the stuff he did with Chaka Khan or Al DiMeola was on that Fender, not a Fodera.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

The funny thing is Anthony Jackson created his early influential recording where he went below E on a detuned Fender Jazz with a Precision neck. All the stuff he did with Chaka Khan or Al DiMeola was on that Fender, not a Fodera.

Doc, I’m talking about Steve Khan, not Chaka Khan .. I liked Anthony’s tone a lot when I first heard him on “For the Love of Money” on the O’Jays album “Ship Ahoy” where, for sure, he used a Fender bass with, presumably, flatwound strings and a pick

Edit:

Same period, more or less, of the above recording from Gary Burton ..

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Doc, I’m talking about Steve Khan, not Chaka Khan .. I liked Anthony’s tone a lot when I first heard him on “For the Love of Money” on the O’Jays album “Ship Ahoy” where, for sure, he used a Fender bass with, presumably, flatwound strings and a pick

Edit:

Same period, more or less, of the above recording from Gary Burton ..

He played that Fender for a lot of the Steve Khan albums too. I know you mentioned Steve Khan. I mentioned Chaka Khan because I love those records and that was when Anthony Jackson became a hero of mine.