as with sports cars ... once you have your personal 'benchmark' , try to find 80% of that performance for 50% less money ... then you have a pretty good value ... for only You .. ! that is the only opinion that actually matters .. !!
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Fodera Vs Carvin
- Thread starter JaredBT
- Start date
I would think a Fodora owner would be able to afford a keyboard with a caps button
it's a style.
WOULD YOU PREFER I DO THIS???
Sports cars are an interesting analogy. There are people that buy them for very different reasons - to shine and show, to drive fast through the canyons, to take them to the track, etc. While driving fast on public roads is idiotic, for the individual they are all viable reasons for buying/owning a sports car.
For those that take them to the track, there are reasons within this group for a particular choice. Since there is a totally objective measure available (i.e. lap times), a person might have that as their primary goal. That said, lower lap times often involve cubic dollars as well as a lot of study and practice, so there are limits. Some years back I had a '79 Porsche 911SC that turned into a track car. Since I bought it in '03, it wasn't particularly expensive (well under $20K - about the price of a new Honda Civic), at least to purchase. I did my homework, studied, and eventually became an instructor with a local club. At that point I'd poured a fair chunk of money into the car, but focused on safety (roll cage, fire suppression, proper harnesses, etc) and suspension. It was bone stock engine with a raging 172 hp. Often guys would argue that their Subie or Evo had way more hp and could turn lower lap times. Both of those were true statement, but as someone who has owned and tracked a Subies and VWs, I can tell you that the *user experience* of lapping with the 911 was totally different than the other cars. Much more visceral, no ABS, no power steering, no traction control - it was a much purer form of driving. It didn't matter to me that I could get a lower lap time, as the time I was spending in the 911 was more enjoyable.
Fodera is a mix of old and new. The construction techniques is a throwback to older times. "Hand crafted" gets used a lot but it can mean a lot of different things. It means what you think at Fodera. The people building your instrument care deeply about making a sublime tool that also is a work of art. They aren't just drawing a paycheck. That is either important to you or it isn't. Neither is objectively better or worse - it depends on the individual. But playing a musical instrument can be a deeply personal endeavor, and often players form relationships with their tools. And sometimes they want, and can afford, a tool that is made by people with similar investment in the end product and the *user experience.*
For those that take them to the track, there are reasons within this group for a particular choice. Since there is a totally objective measure available (i.e. lap times), a person might have that as their primary goal. That said, lower lap times often involve cubic dollars as well as a lot of study and practice, so there are limits. Some years back I had a '79 Porsche 911SC that turned into a track car. Since I bought it in '03, it wasn't particularly expensive (well under $20K - about the price of a new Honda Civic), at least to purchase. I did my homework, studied, and eventually became an instructor with a local club. At that point I'd poured a fair chunk of money into the car, but focused on safety (roll cage, fire suppression, proper harnesses, etc) and suspension. It was bone stock engine with a raging 172 hp. Often guys would argue that their Subie or Evo had way more hp and could turn lower lap times. Both of those were true statement, but as someone who has owned and tracked a Subies and VWs, I can tell you that the *user experience* of lapping with the 911 was totally different than the other cars. Much more visceral, no ABS, no power steering, no traction control - it was a much purer form of driving. It didn't matter to me that I could get a lower lap time, as the time I was spending in the 911 was more enjoyable.
Fodera is a mix of old and new. The construction techniques is a throwback to older times. "Hand crafted" gets used a lot but it can mean a lot of different things. It means what you think at Fodera. The people building your instrument care deeply about making a sublime tool that also is a work of art. They aren't just drawing a paycheck. That is either important to you or it isn't. Neither is objectively better or worse - it depends on the individual. But playing a musical instrument can be a deeply personal endeavor, and often players form relationships with their tools. And sometimes they want, and can afford, a tool that is made by people with similar investment in the end product and the *user experience.*
it's a style.
WOULD YOU PREFER I DO THIS???
someone has never read e.e. cummings...
+1. That's what I get for not reading the first post more closely... I mistakenly thought the OP was actually asking for opinions.
I hate to bring this troll to a close, but the answer is stupidly simple. You take that Carvin bass you love, put it in a box and ship it to Fodera. Enclose a note that says, "Here is my favorite Carvin bass. Please make a new copy of it using quality parts. You may alter the headstock to add the butterfly. Please indicate how many thousands of dollars this will cost."
Win-win!
Perhaps the assessment of value that matters most is that of the player-owner. If $10K got you what you like and what you wanted, and you made yourself happy, I'm not gonna quibble with that. If you suck, and you play your $10K bass out in public, I might think you might not have made the wisest decision (e.g., perhaps $500 for the bass and $9,500 for lessons would've been better); BUT if you're happy playing that bass and don't miss the $10K, I'm not gonna give you a hard time. Even if you never gig the bass and enjoy it at home -- super. Your $10K and your happiness. Good enough for me.
(Or your $30K and your happiness. Or your $2K and your happiness. Or your $250 and your happiness.)
If you were a friend of mine and were consulting me during the decision-making process, I'd likely voice my opinions more strongly. However, once you've made the decision, put the money down, etc., I'm gonna leave you alone.
Peace.
(Or your $30K and your happiness. Or your $2K and your happiness. Or your $250 and your happiness.)
If you were a friend of mine and were consulting me during the decision-making process, I'd likely voice my opinions more strongly. However, once you've made the decision, put the money down, etc., I'm gonna leave you alone.
Peace.
- Jun 6, 2012
- 4,837
- 6,859
- Disclosures
- I don't wait 30 minutes after eating, to go swimming.
I hate to bring this troll to a close, but the answer is stupidly simple. You take that Carvin bass you love, put it in a box and ship it to Fodera. Enclose a note that says, "Here is my favorite Carvin bass. Please make a new copy of it using quality parts. You may alter the headstock to add the butterfly. Please indicate how many thousands of dollars this will cost."
Win-win!
If I were doing this I would tell them to leave the "butterfly" off of the headstock.
I really dislike that butterfly.
And that might actually save a couple grand!
Last edited:
- Jun 6, 2012
- 4,837
- 6,859
- Disclosures
- I don't wait 30 minutes after eating, to go swimming.
Right??? It's so funny, all these threads... Not knocking Fodera at all, there's no way that they could be doing anything wrong at all as so many are owned, loved and played. The question is what makes hi dollar basses (not just Fodera but just happen to see a used one for 10k so that's what initiated the question) cost so much? Are the pre amps $1500? Are there 400 hours in building one? Is the wood sourced from somewhere in Africa behind a sleeping rhino? Is the hardware .... well whatever, I don't know. Was just sort of hoping someone could... actually no, I just like knowing about basses.
Question: "does a $10k Fodera MG play and sound that much better than my Carvin SB5001"
And the answer is......... It all depends on who is playing it.
And the answer is......... It all depends on who is playing it.
I've owned/own both brands and they are both great instruments. You can't go wrong with either.
Asked and answered. Do you bother to read responses here or in other thread linked within?
I look at all of them, though not sure what your asking? Do you mean direct replys.
"Just curious, does a $10k Fodera MG play and sound that much better than my Carvin SB5001? I know Im gonna get lit up on this one... its just I don't see it. My SB was $1700, $8k more... Really?"
Hardly a compliment.
If you really want to know, you can do your research online at the Carvin and Fodera sites to see the differences on paper, but in the end, you need to play them both and decide for yourself. If everyone that responded said Carvin suck and Fodera rule, would it make you sell your Carvin? I doubt it.
It seems like a week can't go by without starting another one of these inexpensive vs. expensive threads.
Right??? It's so funny, all these threads... Not knocking Fodera at all, there's no way that they could be doing anything wrong at all as so many are owned, loved and played. The question is what makes hi dollar basses (not just Fodera but just happen to see a used one for 10k so that's what initiated the question) cost so much? Are the pre amps $1500? Are there 400 hours in building one? Is the wood sourced from somewhere in Africa behind a sleeping rhino? Is the hardware .... well whatever, I don't know. Was just sort of hoping someone could... actually no, I just like knowing about basses.
Component costs (exotic tops, pickups, Fodera bridge, Pope preamp etc) are certainly higher for the Fodera than the Carvin but that's not primarily what drives the price difference. It really is about the difference between the cost of a factory built bass and a handmade one. You are paying for the expertise of a trained luthier/builder and the ability to custom design your instrument. Carvin allows a wide variety of options, but they are not custom instruments in the true sense. And their construction method allows for a greater number of instruments to be produced with fairly tight tolerances.
Jason at Fodera has said a number of times that they spend more time on the inlay on the headstock than it takes factories to build entire guitars. Fodera spends more much more time per instrument, has a small and very experienced crew that is almost certainly paid a much higher wage than Carvin workers and in general have a much higher overhead per instrument due to the way they choose to do business.
Whether that personal touch, attention to detail, and decades of experience of hand building instruments (and interacting with high level musicians in NYC for their feedback) and of course the playability, aesthetics and tone of the finished instruments are worth their price tag to you is an individual decision.
It isn't "all these threads" that are funny, it's the posts like yours.
Right??? It's so funny, all these threads... Not knocking Fodera at all, there's no way that they could be doing anything wrong at all as so many are owned, loved and played. The question is what makes hi dollar basses (not just Fodera but just happen to see a used one for 10k so that's what initiated the question) cost so much? Are the pre amps $1500? Are there 400 hours in building one? Is the wood sourced from somewhere in Africa behind a sleeping rhino? Is the hardware .... well whatever, I don't know. Was just sort of hoping someone could... actually no, I just like knowing about basses.
The questions regarding what makes a "hi dollar bass cost so much" has been answered many times and including recently in this thread.... Labour, benefits, materials, rent, etc.... The list goes on and on.
Have you ever seen a Fodera in person? Have you ever played one? That's the first step. And if you REALLY do actually want your question answered and aren't just posting because you are bored or want to get a rise out of people, go to Fodera or another "hi dollar bass" builder and do a tour. You might not buy one after a tour and talking to the builder, but I can almost guarantee that you wouldn't have posted the above.
Cheers.
