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Double Bass Folding bass/Japan

#21
I think my original intent was lost in here somewhere - let me clarify...

I came here with my Czech-ease for a few reasons - it's much easier to fly with, it was significantly cheaper than flying over a 3/4 upright, and the flight case was a good deal less expensive. We're sort of doing this on a shoestring budget so far... it's not cheap to just start over in a new country, and unfortunately I had to do what I could with what I had.

I must admit I'm caught off guard by the reaction to the instrument here because when I was playing in Boston I always got great reviews - I use Velvet strings, take care to get a good sound out of it, and really tried to spend some time figuring it out vs. a regular bass. I know many guys who treat a CE like a backup instrument, throw some strings on it, and just use it when needed, but there are plenty of great musicians who take the time to get a good sound and make it work. I also know many musicians with "proper instruments" who don't understand the word "tone" and sound like garbage.

It made sense to bring it to Tokyo after it made getting around Boston so much easier. Some of my friends from Japan back home even commented on how they thought it would be a hit here - gearheads everywhere!

I'm not looking for a "lazy" way to get around here I've been carrying basses around for a long time and knew what I was getting myself in to long ago - my resources are limited and I figured if I'm going to have to spend a few grand on a bass, why not look in to the folding bass? It seems like an interesting idea, and if it makes my life easier, why not? I wish I could drop $10,000 and get the 100 year old Ray Brown bass of my dreams, but I can't do that just yet... If I'm going to be looking at plywood basses and student models, why not go for one that takes some stress out of my life and makes riding the trains easier? I've been skeptical from the beginning on the folding bass, but figured it was worth asking about in case it -does- turn out to be some miracle instrument. I'm trying to go in to everything with an open mind here! :)
 
#22
There's always the real DB w/ removable neck option like this Invalid Link Removed

Looks like the lowest cost option in this realm. They make the Eminence RN EUB which I've owned (and toured with) for years and I can tell you the neck joint system is rock solid. Have never played this model bass, but it's apparently their regular DB 200 w/ the RN feature. There's a flight case for it too. The bass alone can be had for under $2,300 IN S. California http://www.gotofmi.com/chrenec200se.html

That price makes it the least expensive RN real DB out there that I know of. BG
 
#25
Why dont you show the producer some photos of Dave Holland or others using a Czech-Ease

Japan prides itself on tradition (of music too)
Its one of the reasons I live here and bought a house here

Go with the flow
If you have to use the club bass , go for it


Good luck and if you have any questions about Japan , give me a buzz

Robert VanLane
 
#26
Saw Mike Arnopol playing his Volante EUB last night. Close your eyes and you are hearing a DB. Open your eyes and it looks very much like a DB. The bout "wings" are removeable. He was playing it without the lower wings attached for convenience. Maybe this instrument would make your travel easier and fool the traditionalists enough. I'm sure if you contact him, he'll be happy to give you the low down on it.
 
#27
ehochberg said:
Saw Mike Arnopol playing his Volante EUB last night. Close your eyes and you are hearing a DB. Open your eyes and it looks very much like a DB. The bout "wings" are removeable. He was playing it without the lower wings attached for convenience. Maybe this instrument would make your travel easier and fool the traditionalists enough. I'm sure if you contact him, he'll be happy to give you the low down on it.
Click to expand...

I've been wondering about the Volante. Since the wings are removable and not part of the vibrating top, what makes it any different than any other of the many 'pogo stick' designs out there? Does it have any kind of sound chamber under the vibrating top area?
 
#28
bribass said:
I've been wondering about the Volante. Since the wings are removable and not part of the vibrating top, what makes it any different than any other of the many 'pogo stick' designs out there? Does it have any kind of sound chamber under the vibrating top area?
Click to expand...

Sorry, don't know the details of the design. What makes it different is that it really sounds like a DB. Maybe Mike will chime in.
 
#29
bribass said:
There's always the real DB w/ removable neck option like this Invalid Link Removed...
Click to expand...

Okay, maybe that's cheaper than the Chadwick, but a Chadwick IS a "real DB" with a neck that folds rather than removable and a case is included in the price.

The Chadwick in its case is MUCH easier to maneuver than a regular bass because the neck isn't sticking out. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, the Chadwick folded is more compact than the CE.

I met Mr Chadwick after he'd played with John Jorgenson's Gypsy Jazz ensemble. It was a small venue, small audience and I went up to the stage right after they'd finished to speak with him. He'd already folded his bass and put it away. I didn't even see him do it.

So the time it takes to put the Chadwick together or knock it down isn't any greater than a removable neck option, in fact I'd be willing to say it's quicker.

Soundwise, it sounded great and I wasn't even aware it was a folding bass until I met him again two months later at Samuel Shen's booth during MusikMesse's Music China in Shanghai. He remembered meeting me before and was telling me about the folding bass; when I mentioned I hadn't seen it he pulled it out immediately and showed me how it works. Unamplified, I couldn't detect a difference between the folding bass and another regular Shen Mr Chadwick had been playing when I arrived at the booth (YEMV). At this point his folding bass (a Shen he'd modified himself) was still the prototype; he and Mr Shen were just finalising their arrangement and the Invalid Link Removed website, the case and other details were still in the planning stages.

SO, in Chadwick's corner:
- Sounds good, as it is a 'real' DB with full-sized air chamber
- Set up and take down is exceptionally quick for a "removable neck" bass (the time it takes is a non-issue IMO)
- Looks like a normal bass, behaves like a normal bass
- You get your preferred setup every time you play (strings, see below)
- For what it is, it's affordable
- made by a respected manufacturer (apart from a few snobs)
- Packed it weighs less than 50lb (22kg)
- Price includes case


Against the Chadwick:
- The recommended strings may not be your cup of tea; your strings of choice may not survive the on again/off again
(but like detachable neck basses, who says you have to pack it up everytime, you could get a standard gig bag and leave it assembled most of the time -- though good luck on Japan's trains.)
- some moving parts (anytime additional moving parts are added it becomes a potential point of failure)
- no options as of yet -- Gamba, 7/8, alternative mensur, finish


The Merchant looks good, but acoustically it might be impaired by less air volume. However, w/ case it's only 47lbs! The Christopher seems a better choice, playing wise, but the weight including hardshell case is 60lbs, well over the ever-decreasing weight-limits imposed by airlines. The CE is 55lbs with trunk.

Another option is the Cosi "99" http://www.cosi-lagarde.com/ which is a carbon-fibre bass w/ removable neck and has a robust hardshell case. The carbon-fibre should prove very durable.

I've only heard the Chadwick in person. I've no experience with the Cosi, Merchant (made by Upton, a plus in my book) nor the Czech-Ease.

Incidentally, Upton offers its basses with a removable neck, but it jacks the price up substantially.

Out of the available options, I was saving for an Upton w/ detachable neck. I'm now leaning towards the Chadwick or the Cosi.
 
#30
Feral, I can see you've done all the research I have. The Chadwick is very compelling. A little wary of all that stuff inside w/ moving parts & all. Is the bridge & tailpiece secured inside? Looks like he just puts it in there. There is advantage to the neck being inside for transport. The hard case is that much smaller, but a removable fingerboard? Lotta stuff that could rattle.

Plus I guess it begs the question; Which sounds better, the Shen SB-100 or the Chistopher DB200?

Have you seen Invalid Link Removed ? Not an full DB, but I've played a non-rn version and once you get used to the smaller scale it plays and sounds good. Nice small package in the travel case, but pricey!
 
#32
bribass said:
Have you seen Invalid Link Removed ? Not an full DB, but I've played a non-rn version and once you get used to the smaller scale it plays and sounds good. Nice small package in the travel case, but pricey!
Click to expand...

I sat in on one of these and had a really hard time figuring out how to hold it while I was playing. It was pretty tortuous trying to sound good on it with Ira Sullivan while the thing kept twisting around on me! :hmm:
 
#33
ehochberg said:
I sat in on one of these and had a really hard time figuring out how to hold it while I was playing. It was pretty tortuous trying to sound good on it with Ira Sullivan while the thing kept twisting around on me! :hmm:
Click to expand...

Man, do I hear that.
I rented an Ampeg Baby Bass once back in the early 60's to play a concert with some kid named "Little" Stevie Wonder. Thing was about 4" deep. (not Stevie....the bass. :rollno: ). It kept flopping out and turning around like you say.

Wonder what happened ever to that kid? :atoz:

EDIT: Ira fan from way back. Played a great session with him and Red Rodney in Pori, Finland back in the day. (as you know, sometimes day is night and vicey-vercy over there. It was light out so it musta been night).
 
#34
Rattle & strum:

As far as I recall, there were clips inside the Chadwick for everything that goes in, so nothing rattling around inside the bass during transport.

As a keen slapper, I'd like to put one of these folding basses to the test and smack the bejeebers out of it and see whether I can get it to rattle. Alas, I lack the talent to have Shen/Chadwick or anyone else beating a path to my door with an endorsement contract.

I'll have to dig out the pics from whatever HD they're on and take a look again. It was the prototype mind -- though I know Samuel Shen suggested several upgrades for the production model. Both Mr Chadwick and Mr Shen were gracious whilst answering my copious questions.

As for the Kolstein Travel Bussetto, I've got nothing against Bussettos, but the KTB looks a bit Salvador Dali-esque to me. As far as aesthetics go...

Full disclosure: I used to think the Czech-ease looks vile. However, after checking out Mike Carr on YouTube (how come I've never seen him here in HK yet? Must rectify that!), he was playing his CE and I didn't realise it 'til halfway through the video. While not vile, it still doesn't capture my interest.

I really liked Jean Auray's detachable neck system, it's relatively hidden, and the Nanoo case. Hotrod a classic Kay with the hidden attachment and away you go. Or maybe just an Upton with the Nanoo (as far as I know, Upton still has no case for its detachable neck models).

All this is, of course, in anticipation of the day I can play well enough to have offers flooding in to play around Asia, nee the world. Bwahhahhaha.

2am! Off to bed to rest my weary bass-elbow, then Scottish Jigs & Reels tomorrow evening of which I know none.

Patron: "Is that a cello?"
YHN: "No, it's a fumble-bass."

Cheers, FF
PS: Yes, the foldingbass case looks like it needs lots of "FRAGILE!" stickers
 
#35
Our own JDubbleYoo has a 1/2 size bass turned travel bass that he calls his "Peashooter". I think it was a decent chinese make, gave it to a luthier to fix it up and add a removable neck. Looks great, fun to to play. Has like a 40" scale length, so it's not too bad.
 
#38
Hey to to cat on Lamma Island! Glad to know that you think my C-E Bass does not look "vile"! Ha-ha!
Check your PM. I'm at Island Shangri-La, Lobster Bar six nights a week until May. Drop by anytime. Would be very happy to meet another person from TB.Com. Playing the Gage Bass at that gig if you wanna check it out.
 

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