For MusicMan lovers

[Mrtoodamnsabre]

I think lots of people know about that, since it's such a major part of the history of how CLF "morphed" from producing early Music Mans into producing G&Ls. I have been playing Stingrays since 1988, and when I first picked it up back then, I had this history, including the finish issue, explained to me by my dad. I would think that on a hobbyist Website such as this, this would be fairly common knowledge. I have certainly seen it mentioned many times, at least.

One thing the video's narrator didn't mention, however, is the plethora of dealer rejects and customer warranty claims due to badly warped necks and other issues...and the reassembling of some instruments with the wrong parts during factory warranty service (including mixed up neck plates and/or bridges, i.e. serial numbers).

They have a very positive reputation for being such well built instruments...but if you actually look at the history, and have played a bunch of them from different periods, you should know that the CLF-built ones, while certainly the "coolest," were actually the worst built of any era of U.S.-made Music Mans. They were actually just very well designed instruments that could leave much to be desired in the area of craftsmanship/production. And these issues played no small part in why CLF "re-booted" with G&L.

And if you're a G&L nut, like me, you also know that early G&L necks are NOTORIOUS for getting warped. As awesome as all the stuff was that was cranked out of CLF Research, design-wise, and as untouchable as they can be when you get a good one, they were obviously doing something very wrong there as well. I have never encountered such high percentages of bad necks on even the cheapest, most awfully built brands, as I have on pre-EB Music Mans and '80s G&Ls.

i think a lot of players mistake an unusable neck for a neck that needs to be but hasn't been shimmed, both early g&ls and early musicmans are gonna have 3 bolts with microtilt, which usually meant little to no factory setup or minimal factory setup and a neck that people are going to jack up from either over tightening or through improperly engaging that microtilt.

In the 70s the microtilt would be brand new also, some newbie not familiar with it gets a new bass, doesn't unscrew that bottom screw and turns it and they've bored a grove into an otherwise good neck. A lot of factory guitars and basses before then and after then have shims hanging out in them, and those guys for sure wouldn't be shimmed

 

[2F/2F]

i think a lot of players mistake an unusable neck for a neck that needs to be but hasn't been shimmed, both early g&ls and early musicmans are gonna have 3 bolts with microtilt, which usually meant little to no factory setup or minimal factory setup and a neck that people are going to jack up from either over tightening or through improperly engaging that microtilt.

In the 70s the microtilt would be brand new also, some newbie not familiar with it gets a new bass, doesn't unscrew that bottom screw and turns it and they've bored a grove into an otherwise good neck. A lot of factory guitars and basses before then and after then have shims hanging out in them, and those guys for sure wouldn't be shimmed

What I'm talking about had nothing to do with lack of shimming. I'm talking about warped necks – necks that have the classic pre-EB Music Man and early G&L warps: a long hump in the mid-section, with a dip and a ski ramp on either side of it.

Tightening a Micro-Tilt adjuster without loosening the neck does not "bore a groove" in the neck. The adjuster simply hits the inset striker plate, and won't go any farther.

Additionally, the basses were set up with Micro-Tilt engaged, from the factory, no question. Why would you think the presence of a neck tilt device would mean that the basses would not receive a thorough factory setup? If anything, it would lead to better setups, faster.

The neck problems with these basses are a combination of their use of truss rods with minimal adjustment (leading to overtightening), which did not achieve the apogee of their arch, and thus exert their upward force, under the 12th fret, but lower – and the type of fingerboard leveling and radiusing jigs that were used, which could easily lead to the ski ramps on either end of the board, right out of the factory. I also suspect that they were cheaping out on lumber, using it too green. But that's just a theory of mine.

Then I think about 3-bolt Fenders from the '70s, a lot of which I have worked on...and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen one that has a seriously misshapen neck.

IME, there is nothing wrong with the 3-bolt attachment systems, In fact, I love them on Fender, Music Mans, and G&Ls, and prefer them over the standard 4-bolt setup and shims.

 

[Mrtoodamnsabre]

What I'm talking about had nothing to do with lack of shimming. I'm talking about warped necks – necks that have the classic pre-EB Music Man and early G&L warps: a long hump in the mid-section, with a dip and a ski ramp on either side of it.

Tightening a Micro-Tilt adjuster without loosening the neck does not "bore a groove" in the neck. The adjuster simply hits the inset striker plate, and won't go any farther.

Additionally, the basses were set up with Micro-Tilt engaged, from the factory, no question. Why would you think the presence of a neck tilt device would mean that the basses would not receive a thorough factory setup? If anything, it would lead to better setups, faster.

The neck problems with these basses are a combination of their use of truss rods with minimal adjustment (leading to overtightening), which did not achieve the apogee of their arch under the 12th fret – and the type of fingerboard leveling and radiusing jigs that were used, which could easily lead to the ski ramps on either end of the board, right out of the factory. I also suspect that they were cheaping out on lumber, but that's just a theory of mine.

Then I think about 3-bolt Fenders from the '70s, a lot of which I have worked on...and I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen one that has a seriously misshapen neck.

I was more or less referring to things left in the aftermarket today, there definitely were problems with those early necks, hence the fallout between musicman and CLF, and rumors of straight truss rods etc. they had a pretty generous repair and replace policy, which makes for good quality control in the long run, but is absolutely terrible for ones reputation on making something functional

 

[definenredefine]

Thanks for posting! I'll watch this when I get home from work.

 

[definenredefine]

Watched it while using the rowing machine, so I learned about my longest-held bass while also getting in my exercise for the day. Win win!

 

[Villavicencio]

Is this a good deal for the price 1500, a 1991 Musicman ray5 litttle dings here and there nothings serious just wanted to know if it's worth the price

 

[Mrtoodamnsabre]

Is this a good deal for the price 1500, a 1991 Musicman ray5 litttle dings here and there nothings serious just wanted to know if it's worth the price

looks great! 1500 is a fair price for that, musicmans are pretty stable with their value, the only exception is the Sabre recently and discontinued stuff and rarities but it doesn't really drift to far past its original value usually!