Forget Fatfinger I found the deadspot fix!

[takeout]

I always wondered if it was an unbalanced-tension issue - the wood of the neck is having to fight torsion from the different tensions of each string, and in fighting that twist, certain nodes are introduced at inconvenient spots.

Then I owned a Jack Casady, with a 2x2 headstock, and never had the issue. So my theory updated to blame asymmetrical tension on just the headstock of four-in-line basses.

Then I realized I don't really have the engineering chops to explain any of this, and I sat down.

 

[lz4005]

So if I recall correctly (unlikely) the reason for the 3+1 headstock on the MusicMan bass was to solve the dead spot. I always assumed it was just moving the mass of the G string tuner. But if the OP's solution really works, that would imply (to me) that the length of the string on the other side of the nut has something to do with the dead spot.

If the OP's solution actually works (and if it works by damping the string vibration on the tuner side of the nut) --- you would think that simply having strings with silk wraps under the tree would behave differently than no-silk strings as far as dead spots. Or you would think just putting a foam mute between the G and D strings on the tuner side of the nut would do the same. Unless (like @lz4005 said) the reason it worked for the OP is that his string tree wasn't pressing the strings down against the nut hard enough and the rubber shim increased that tension.

That's not quite what I said. I was responding to a comment about the tree transmitting string vibration into the headstock, which doesn't happen. For proof, play an open G and touch the string between the nut and tuner. It isn't vibrating.

Smaller headstocks in general, like the MM design, usually move the dead spot to a less annoying note because they reduce the overall mass of the neck. It isn't the shape or the position of the tuners, it's just that they're smaller. A smaller piece of wood resonates at a higher frequency.

Increasing the stiffness of the neck does the same thing. That's the idea behind the modern single cut design: less neck free of the body is less bendy because it's a shorter lever. Same for multi-laminate and carbon fiber necks. Stiffer means more sustain and dead spots moved farther up to the dusty end of the fretboard.

 

[AndyPanda]

That's not quite what I said. I was responding to a comment about the tree transmitting string vibration into the headstock, which doesn't happen. For proof, play an open G and touch the string between the nut and tuner. It isn't vibrating.

Sorry if I misquoted you or misrepresented your point. This is what I was referring to:

All it does is keep the string in the nut properly.

I guess I thought you meant that was what the rubber fix was doing ... but now I guess you meant that's all a string tree does. I get it now.

BTW ... if you pluck the string between the nut and tree or tree and tuner you get a clear note - so it can/does vibrate. Whether or not it vibrates enough to have any effect ... seems doubtful but I'm not ruling it out without testing it out (but I no longer have a bass with a dead spot to test).

 

[RattleSnack]

I believe it is thin connection between neck and headstock to blame. Neck vibrates, connection is not rigid enough, and Fender headstock is massive, so it vibrates also. On some frequences, they fall in oposite phase, and cancel out.
I also once changed tuners for lighter ones on my Jazz, and that solved problem. When I reinstaled original ones, problem was back.

 

[lz4005]

Sorry if I misquoted you or misrepresented your point. This is what I was referring to:

I guess I thought you meant that was what the rubber fix was doing ... but now I guess you meant that's all a string tree does. I get it now.

BTW ... if you pluck the string between the nut and tree or tree and tuner you get a clear note - so it can/does vibrate. Whether or not it vibrates enough to have any effect ... seems doubtful but I'm not ruling it out without testing it out (but I no longer have a bass with a dead spot to test).

No worries.

Of course it will vibrate when you pluck it between the nut and tuner but it doesn't when you're playing the normal part of the string.

 

[Bassbeater]

None of my basses have dead spots. Maybe I just play those notes harder. Who knows...

 

[birminghambass]

I've owned over 200 basses, only 3 were free of dead spots. 2 G&Ls and a Lakland. Every single Fender (well over 100) had one to some degree. I've done experimenting with several things to help, I was able to shift it up or down the neck with different weight tuners.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Unplug your bass, tap the neck with a knuckle. You’ll hear a tapped note of C# or D. This is the resonance frequency of the neck. When you play that note, the neck will vibrate at that frequency and absorb the energy from the strings. If you play the C# or D on the D string, you won’t have as much of a dead spot because the more massive string is vibrating and there is less of the neck involved. I’m skeptical that a washer under a string tree did anything. However, I have experimented with putting rubber washers in between strings to kill the headstock “ping” that you can get when you hit the strings hard with a thumb or whatever. That can be audible and screw with effects like an octave or envelope filters.

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

There does not seem to be any one cure for every dead spot.
Weight, tension, neck stiffness and string design all play a part.
I am sure the strings between to nut and tuners must vibrate.
Everything on a bass vibrates.
Maybe damping at the string tree will help, sometimes.
Since it is cheap, simple, easy and reversible, I see no reason not to try it.

 

[Fullerton50sFan]

I always thought that the string tree not only helped to keet pressure on the string to the nut but also helped to couple the vibration from the string to the peg head for more sustain (like using a C-clamp in the old days for massive sustain without sophisticated compression).
OTOH, if sustain isn't lost, and your idea eliminates dead spots, it's a home run.
Any chance you can post a pic?

Jim-Thanks for replying.Your perception that
the string tree helps with sustain is backwards,
energy taken from the string by the string tree
diminishes the sustain,with one important
exception: the string tree (st to save typing)
when excited into sympathetic vibration
(resonance) by the fretted note passing that
energy thru the fret, to the neck, to the headstock can produce a vibration in the string
going the opposite direction.(over the nut)
That wave can be in phase and through phase
coupling cause a doubling of volume and
sustain (in cellos and dbs it's called a wolf tone). When that wave (frequency) is out of
phase it causes reduced volume,sustain,and
harmonic content. This is what a dead spot is.
By placing a hard rubber washer between the
st and the strings they are no longer hard coupled,the vibrational energy is absorbed by
the rubber,a damping effect.
As to the picture,my cell got scratched right
over the lens. Just picture your string tree
with a 1/4 inch oversized rubber washer under
it with your D and G strings under that. What
a picture,no dead spots!

 

[MultiScaleMale]

People have been using Fret Wraps from Gruv Gear for years. Myself included. They silence the strings behind the nut and it has no effect on dead spots.

 

[BAG]

My two short scales don't have any apparent dead spots.
My two full scale basses do.
The fretless has its most pronounced dead spot half way between C# and D.

The fretted bass has the most obvious dead spot at C.
BUT..... here's the part to ruin the OP's theory a bit. This neck has a reverse headstock so no string tree at that string but still a dead spot at the usual place.

One thing that is interesting is that i was damping the other three strings with the edge of my thumb while picking the G string with a heavy pick and on the dead notes the other strings had a lot of sympathetic vibration while on notes that rang true (G#, A, Bb) there was very little or no sympathetic vibration.

 

[yodedude2]

There does not seem to be any one cure for every dead spot.
Weight, tension, neck stiffness and string design all play a part.
I am sure the strings between to nut and tuners must vibrate.
Everything on a bass vibrates.
Maybe damping at the string tree will help, sometimes.
Since it is cheap, simple, easy and reversible, I see no reason not to try it.

this.

 

[Jim C]

Jim-Thanks for replying.Your perception that
the string tree helps with sustain is backwards,
energy taken from the string by the string tree
diminishes the sustain,with one important
exception: the string tree (st to save typing)
when excited into sympathetic vibration
(resonance) by the fretted note passing that
energy thru the fret, to the neck, to the headstock can produce a vibration in the string
going the opposite direction.(over the nut)
That wave can be in phase and through phase
coupling cause a doubling of volume and
sustain (in cellos and dbs it's called a wolf tone). When that wave (frequency) is out of
phase it causes reduced volume,sustain,and
harmonic content. This is what a dead spot is.
By placing a hard rubber washer between the
st and the strings they are no longer hard coupled,the vibrational energy is absorbed by
the rubber,a damping effect.
As to the picture,my cell got scratched right
over the lens. Just picture your string tree
with a 1/4 inch oversized rubber washer under
it with your D and G strings under that. What
a picture,no dead spots!

Thanks for this; I can see how the physics behind this could work.
Many here have those rubber washers used to keep straps from coming loose.
An easy test would be to put this rubber washer between the strings and the underside of a round Fender string tree to help minimize an out of phase condition.

Can I assume that the thickness or duromoter of the rubber is not critical for this application?

 

[Fullerton50sFan]

There's so little vibration in the string past the nut it's completely insignificant. All it does is keep the string in the nut properly.

A C clamp, or pressing the head against the wall (another old school studio trick), adds mass to the neck and changes how it resonates, making it soak up less energy from the vibrating portion of the string, so you get more sustain.

Iz4005-Thanks for joining in. There is string energy going past the nut (a soft endpoint or
node).The string tree vibrating in sympathy
with the headstock because they are hard coupled sends the plucked note out of phase
over the nut and down the G string to the
antinode.This is the part of the string where
it oscillates the most, above the 6th fret.The
phenomenon is referred to as a "standing wave",but is in fact a stationary interference
pattern which results in partial phase cancellation of the fretted note(s) bracketing
the antinode ,6th fret (typically 4-8). Please
research standing waves,phase cancellation and coupling and let us know what you find.

 

[Fullerton50sFan]

Thanks for this; I can see how the physics behind this could work.
Many here have those rubber washers used to keep straps from coming loose.
An easy test would be to put this rubber washer between the strings and the underside of a round Fender string tree to help minimize an out of phase condition.

Can I assume that the thickness or duromoter of the rubber is not critical for this application?

JimC-Like your idea of putting a rubber washer
between the string tree and the strings,wish I'd thought of it. As to thickness,I would go
with 1/16-3/32-1/8.Thicker than that and I
think you might be risking breaking the wrap
on flats by increasing the breakover angle at
the nut. Some string makers recommend not
stringing thru the body for this reason.

 

[Fullerton50sFan]

Yeah, I had a hard time visualizing from the description. Do the strings push up against the washer, which is between strings and tree "top"?

Would LOVE to be able to fix this on my Fenders for under a buck each...

Yes you've got it,just be sure to use a hard
rubber washer that is 1/4 inch oversize-
1 inch o.d. I tried one the same size so it
wouldn't show but because it's rubber it
got pushed under the string tree when tuning
up and down and could easily result in string
and string tree contact that would allow that
out of phase frequency back across the nut
and thru the neck to phase cancel the note,
aka dead spot.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Plan B:
View attachment 3127056

I played one of those back in the 80s... it’s still producing a sound...

 

[cataract]

I played one of those back in the 80s... it’s still producing a sound...

You talking about a Travis Bean? I’ve yet to actually play one of their basses but I’ve heard their guitars would sometimes maybe have dead spots (probably due to the body being made of actual wood) but as far as I know, EGC all-aluminum instruments are pretty much devoid of such problems due to the sheer mass + harmonic richness.

 

[Coolhandjjl]