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Forgive my ignorance, speaker replacement question/options

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by sunbrother, Oct 30, 2013.


  1. sunbrother

    sunbrother

    May 3, 2013
    Hey TB I was wondering if you could help me out on this one. I recently blew a 15" I use for practice at my bandmates place.

    The cab is a GK 115SBX - found http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/gallien-krueger-115sbx-bass-cab

    I killed it with my bx1500. But here's the kicker, I wasn't running it hard. bx1500 is 300w @ 8ohm, I had my power amp up and my master shy of noon. It's a bit louder than I normally run it, but we were sans guitar and decided to each get loud at opposite ends of the room. Thermal smells galore.

    I come to find out it's been blown before, and he replaced it with some unknown wattage/year Pyle Driver. Haven't pulled it yet, I had an old TNT115S to use in it's stead.

    Long story short, I'm trying to find a suitable replacement speaker for this cab. It's 23" x 23" x 18", giving it about 5.5 cubic feet of volume. It's rear ported - not the SBXII, the cheap cheap one.

    The build of the cab seems solid enough. I was hoping to put something sub-$120 into it, as I think the cab costs less than 200 new.

    Can anyone use their vast knowledge of cab tuning and driver xmax/spl to give me a lead? I don't need to worry about shimmery highs, this is a practice cab holding down the low end.

    Thanks all
     
  2. wmheilma

    wmheilma

    Jan 5, 2010
    You have the cab dimensions. Figure out the area of the port opening and the duct length (depth of the port if there is a tube or shelf). You can use the measurement info and look at specs for speakers in your price range. Eminence probably has one that will work.
     
  3. sunbrother

    sunbrother

    May 3, 2013
    How can you use the port length and diameter to determine which speaker is suitable? Port placement obviously has an effect on choice and sound, right? How does someone go about using these stats to make an informed decision?

    I won't be able to get near the cab for at least a couple more days to break it down. I was hoping there was slight chance someone had experience with this cab or style of cab.
     
  4. If you can, don't bother doing all the work figuring out what drivers will work and just go with the original driver. Your best (you would hope so) option if you can find one.
     
  5. sunbrother

    sunbrother

    May 3, 2013
    Only two problems with that, the original speaker (GK-Paragon 15B200-8) is not offered by GK: http://secure.netsolhost.com/272252...vc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=GS&Category_Code=S8

    The other being I'd like to increase the power handling of the cab. It's built pretty solid, and I use(d) it enough that I'd like to have it handle more of what I can throw at it without meltdown. The original was rated at 200W RMS, but, lets be honest, that wasn't really happening
     
  6. Not unless it's a shelf port- then the rules are slightly different. Placement doesn't matter. With box volume, port diameter and length, you're good to go with online selection.
     
  7. kikstand454

    kikstand454

    Sep 28, 2012
  8. Well... maybe. Those Emi 3015s can handle 450 watts, yes. IF the cab has internal volume somewhere 'near' what a 3015 wants. And if the port tuning is also 'near'. And if the port volume is also 'near'. But, even if the cab specifications are pretty close to what a 3015 works good with, you still don't know how it will sound. At that point, it's just try it and see.
     
  9. sunbrother

    sunbrother

    May 3, 2013
    Alright I know these 3015's are the bee's knees around here, BUT at that point the speaker is costing as much as the cab itself :|

    So, using these specs: http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Kappalite_3015.pdf
    I see the VAS is about right (cab .1 ft^3 larger than spec), but how can I tell the port dimension/tolerance?
    Also, regarding the graph, it's charted at 1W/1m, correct? Since I won't be running it at full RMS capabilities, can you tell how the response (I guess dbSPL?) would be at say 200w/300w/etc?
     
  10. wmheilma

    wmheilma

    Jan 5, 2010
    Eminence Delta 15LFA would be a good choice. New price is about $100. Not as efficient as the 3015 Neo but sounds great. (I use one and am happy with it overall.)
     
  11. sunbrother

    sunbrother

    May 3, 2013
    Alright I can get down with that. I'm not worried about weight, so it looks to be a good contender. Question about it's VAS; it is somewhere around 8^3ft - is that a max number or is it something to stay inline with?
     
  12. wmheilma

    wmheilma

    Jan 5, 2010
    Volume for ported cab was 5.5 ft cubed. Also the weight is not bad really. You can check the specs on eminence's site or parts express. Would be good to Check if the mounting info looks like a fit too.
     
  13. Dont worry too much about that. Can you measure the port? might make things easier.
     
  14. sunbrother

    sunbrother

    May 3, 2013
    I might be able to measure it depending on where I'm practicing today. I'll update later
     
  15. sunbrother

    sunbrother

    May 3, 2013
    Speakers that fit the bill (please comment on them if you can, remember fullrange 15 but I'm not worries about bright highs)

    Delta15-lfa (500W @8ohm)
    Delta15-a (400W @8ohm)
    Kappa15-c (450W @4ohm)
    Kappa15-a (450W @8ohm)
    Legend CB15 (only 300W @8ohms, seems like the right application but exhausting it early)

    So that's basically the list of sub $125 woofers. Can anyone looking express their insight on these, especially if you've been in this situation before?
     
  16. Uncle K

    Uncle K The bass player doesn't get a sandwich Supporting Member

    Aug 22, 2011
    Erie, PA
    I'm a big fan of the Eminence Legends. I've had them in my Ashdown cabs for a couple years.
     
  17. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
  18. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    BTW, your cab isn't 5.5 cu.ft. It's the net internal space that matters. The 5.5 must be a result of exterior measurements. It's probably closer to 4, which is a decent spot for several 15's.
     
  19. sunbrother

    sunbrother

    May 3, 2013
    Thanks, I thought of that but I'm not sure how thick the walls are and didn't factor that in.

    I take it you have personal experience with both speakers? Which do you prefer? And in regards to the volume of the cab vs speaker power, how do you figure the wattage at which the cones are protected up to?

    The reason I ask is my amp will put out 300W@8ohms. Not saying I'll be running full power, but if my master volume gets bumped I don't want to have a mini heart attack.

    Is the 350W vs 300W worth the extra ~20 dollars? Does one sound better? Does one perform better at lower volume vs one at higher volume?
     
  20. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Like most, both will reach xmax before their thermal limit (watts), but, they're both on the "good end" of the scale as far as that goes. That means they won't be able to produce any more clean bass before you reach the 300 watts. In that cab, they'll probably run out of clean around the 160-200 watt mark. That may not seem like much, but it's actually pretty good for a single speaker when compared to a lot of other common bass guitar speakers.

    Those rating are based on a constant sine wave (test tone) input, which a vibrating bass string is not. With the instrument, there is an initial transient spike at the attack of the note that is the very high power demand, with the rest of the note playing out with much less. No human can play fast enough to keep those transients up there often enough (they're only a few thousandths of a second long) to keep that high power demand with any regularity. Basically, we aren't using as much power as we think we are most of the time. What very high xmax speakers and high power amplifiers do is play those quick transients cleanly as well.

    Both the Legend CB158 and the 1505DT-8 Widow will have similar extension in the lows and similar power handling down there. The main differences are their general tone in the mids and towards the upper end of their range. The Legend is in the warmer side of tone. Not overly "dark", there's enough there to have definition in the sound, but it's not "bright" or "mid-forward". The Widow has more going on in the uppermids. It can be kind of a like it/don't like it sort of thing. May not sound quite as musical to some up close, but further out in the audience, it keeps it's definition and "projection".

    The Delta15LF would fit too. Good handling in the lows, on the warmer side of tone. That one is also lower spl than the other 2. Means you would have to turn the amp up further, send it more power, to reach the same volume as the other 2 would with less power.

    Adjusting the port tuning will affect response and power handling in the bass, as the port sort of "controls" the cone movement around the tuning frequency, then completely loses control of it in the extreme lows.


    You can download programs like WinISD for free to model all these different speakers and visually see the tradeoffs in various designs. It may be a bit of an eye-opener at first as you realize some speakers taughted as "high power" really aren't so high when it comes to the bass.

    Any of those speakers, even the Eminence Beta would likely be an improvement of the Pyle whatever that was in there.
     

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