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Formal theory training - why? This is why.
- Thread starter buldog5151bass
- Start date
I've read some books & took an online course with the University of Edinburgh.
Maybe that's my problem. Once I get to chord inversions & elaborating keys, I don't know how to apply it.
Maybe that's my problem. Once I get to chord inversions & elaborating keys, I don't know how to apply it.
Yeah, chord inversions make my head hurt. I play them all the time, but looking at them on a sheet just hasn't clicked yet.
Studying theory has helped me quite a bit. For one, it's made changing keys on the fly a lot easier for me. I'll use folsom prison for a simple example; I learned it in F but almost every time I've played it with a group, they play it in E. The first time that happened, I was all screwed up just because I didn't understand that all I had to do was follow a 1, 4, 5 with a different root. I was sitting there thinking that the key change wizardry was way more complex than it really was.
The other thing I noticed the other day was it can make cheat sheets cleaner. I've been making charts of some tunes I play and was charting out "Baby lets Play House". For some reason, I tend to think in flats rather than sharps so at first try, my sheet was covered with accidentals (Gb, Ab,)
but then it clicked: The song key is in E so G's are sharp, F's are sharp, blah blah. I made a new chart and I think it only has 3 accidentals on it so the sheet is much easier to read while playing.
BTW: Upright guys should check out that tune for some Bill Black slap goodness
Studying theory has helped me quite a bit. For one, it's made changing keys on the fly a lot easier for me. I'll use folsom prison for a simple example; I learned it in F but almost every time I've played it with a group, they play it in E. The first time that happened, I was all screwed up just because I didn't understand that all I had to do was follow a 1, 4, 5 with a different root. I was sitting there thinking that the key change wizardry was way more complex than it really was.
The other thing I noticed the other day was it can make cheat sheets cleaner. I've been making charts of some tunes I play and was charting out "Baby lets Play House". For some reason, I tend to think in flats rather than sharps so at first try, my sheet was covered with accidentals (Gb, Ab,)
but then it clicked: The song key is in E so G's are sharp, F's are sharp, blah blah. I made a new chart and I think it only has 3 accidentals on it so the sheet is much easier to read while playing.
BTW: Upright guys should check out that tune for some Bill Black slap goodness
What music do you enjoy listening to & playing? Start there. Learn:
- why "that certain chord" sounds good to you (wow, maybe it's an inversion).
- the scale the bass player plays with that specific bass run you like, and the chord it's played over.
- write out a song you know into sheet music. (you already know the notes, key signatures make a lot more sense once you start writing that music down).
"I Will Survive" contains the circle of fourths...
(B7 Em-E7) Am Dm G7 C F...B7 etc.
Learning a little bit of theory can help you so much. Scales are used for song structures, arpeggios and bass lines. It can help you communicate with other musicians, dissect songs and write songs.
It can be confusing and overwhelming. I only took a few electives in college and have read up a lot on my own, but I'm much more competent at my craft than I was before. And yes, people who know theory can sound technical when they play, but that is their personality and style. I would rather play root notes because it sounds best for the song than only play root notes because I don't know what else to do. And if I wanted to shift into the dorian mode for a fill or change I can do that too, but I know why that is the scale I want to use and what makes it unique.
It can be confusing and overwhelming. I only took a few electives in college and have read up a lot on my own, but I'm much more competent at my craft than I was before. And yes, people who know theory can sound technical when they play, but that is their personality and style. I would rather play root notes because it sounds best for the song than only play root notes because I don't know what else to do. And if I wanted to shift into the dorian mode for a fill or change I can do that too, but I know why that is the scale I want to use and what makes it unique.
I used to think that. But I just read a bunch of posts on Quora, it was the same argument, but relating to computer programming. Some people feel they would rather be (or hire) a self-taught programmer rather than a trained software engineer. Cuz like, Bill Gates didn't need no computer degree, so I don't neither.The Arts - one of the few fields where some people consider ignorance an advantage.
Really, rigorous training will probably limit your creativity, in any field. But that's largely the point. Learning a language limits the sounds you make, and thus your sonic creativity. The grunts and snuffles of the innocent caveman are forever lost to you. But another world is opened to you, and you have the chance to read and write poetry and novels, user manuals and raps and haiku.
People will always glorify ignorance, it's part of being human. A caveman might write a much more creative and unique novel than Stephen King. But most of them probably won't.
I listen to both genres, Motorhead & Black Sabbath.
Oh, who am I kidding? The Ramones are great too.
You got to the root of why I get frustrated. I can't hear any of that. My ears just are not good enough.
I tried a book from Berklee that has a CD of audio tracks you can follow along, and I was dumbfounded by it all.
The University of Edinburgh instructors sat at a piano explaining how this sounds like this & that sounds like that. It was all muckety muck to me.
I can hear well enough to pass the hearing tests, but there is definitely something wrong with my sense of pitch.
It definitely becomes easier to understand if you have a teacher holding your hand and explaining the concepts to you and slowing you down when you overwhelm yourself with too much info all at once.
There is sort of an 80/20 rule to useful music theory
80% of the music theory you actually use is contained in 20% of the information out there
- intervals
- scales
- chords and chord tones
- harmonizing scales/keys
- cadences & common chord progressions
Everything else in music theory is really just less common, less useful ways to look at the above.
IMHO
I'll probably never be able to improvise, as I fail at the very basics of harmonizing.
At the rate I'm learning, I should be ready for the big time around 75 years of age.
At the rate I'm learning, I should be ready for the big time around 75 years of age.
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The connotations associated with the word 'theory' make it sound like it's some complex, esoteric system of thought that requires intense study to understand. That's not true at all. At its most basic level, theory allows you to understand the relationship between the notes and gives a vocabulary to those relationships. I have a moderate understanding of theory and it definitely enhances my playing.
For anyone interested in learning the basics of theory, I'd bet that casual study will enhance your playing more than anything else you could do with that time. For this post I'd classify the basics as: learning the major scale and its modes in all twelve keys, knowing which chord goes with each mode, knowing the location of each note on your fingerboard, and being able to understand and relate to notes by their letter name and numerical degree within the major scale. Once you learn those things, you will intuitively know things like in the key of C major, E is the 3 and F is the 4; and when playing over the 3 in D flat major you would play F minor.
For anyone interested in learning the basics of theory, I'd bet that casual study will enhance your playing more than anything else you could do with that time. For this post I'd classify the basics as: learning the major scale and its modes in all twelve keys, knowing which chord goes with each mode, knowing the location of each note on your fingerboard, and being able to understand and relate to notes by their letter name and numerical degree within the major scale. Once you learn those things, you will intuitively know things like in the key of C major, E is the 3 and F is the 4; and when playing over the 3 in D flat major you would play F minor.
For me, I've found that learning theory and playing bass are most efficiently done independently.
I will study a concept that I want to learn, let it cook for a while in the back of my mind, then grab a bass and test my knowledge. Then, I will take the next baby step. I've learned by hard experience that this is my most effective method. I may not take the theory to my bass for more than a week, as I 'visualize' the concept.
As for inversions, they are probably one of the most useful things I've ever learned, especially as they relate to leading chords on my 6 string.
It was ALL gobbledygook to me when I started too. Just take smaller bites.
My very kind guitar teacher gave me just enough to help & not sink. He asked me to work out by ear the chords for a song I had heard and liked. Took me 4 weeks of lessons to work out for myself one 4-chord song.
The Ramones are awesome. Sedated has the chords E A B (then later F# B C#).
Listen for when it changes from the E chord. It can only be A or B, try each one to see which sounds right. (Hang in there, with practice this gets a lot faster. Easier songs are faster to learn).
The key change the same - playing E there just won't sound right.
My teacher didn't even use a single theory word, just taught me to listen.
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I bought a "note speller" exercise book for guitar. It helps you memorize the fretboard & the notes on the staff. I need to start spending some time actually reading that.
Too many things to read & watch really. I guess it's like has been said, a little bite at a time.
Too many things to read & watch really. I guess it's like has been said, a little bite at a time.
I will never minimize the ability to read music, but in reality, unless you are looking for theater or orchestral work, you will rarely be required to read.
Your time may be better spent learning about chord charts and the theory behind them. Learn the major scale and all the modes, so that when you see a song in the key of E, and the chord progression is I, iv, IV, V7 you know every note that is available to you in those changes.
If you can master that, in every key, you will be the first call for a band that needs a bassist.
