Four-piece bands... am I right?

[logdrum]

I guess this forum would explode on 2 bass players 'formats

 

[crguti]

Same type of situation as my old band. When only 1 guitarist showed up we sounded much better.

 

[davideventu]

I think a lot goes into arrangement. We don't play covers and we don't generally just do random jams. When we work on parts and arrangements, it tends to be a very involved process where the other 3 in the band might take a lot of time just to work on one guitar part.

Even when just jamming on idea though, I think it's the attitude that distinguishes my current 2-guitar band from my former. The old band had a lot of "volume war" and wankery, whereas the 2 current guitarists generally see what space has to be filled and what has to be respected and play accordingly.

A lot of rambling to say it goes either way

 

[Dreamsinger]

The problem is manifold. For all their bravado and "look at me" posture a lot of guitarists aren't confident enough in their chops to be "the" guitarist. The problem is compounded by the idea that being the "rhythm" guitarist is somehow a lesser thing. The truth is that rhythm is a harder skill to master. Throw in a mediocre bass player that can't hold down the groove and "the" guitarist gets lost and erroneously feels like he needs a second guitarist which compounds the problem further with "dueling guitars". I've had offers to play rhythm but unless the bass player is a lot better than I (not likely) and is locked up tight with the drummer which is also a rarity, I pass. The 4th in a 4pc should never be anything but a killer on B3/keys.

 

[Old P Bass Guy]

The problem is manifold. For all their bravado and "look at me" posture a lot of guitarists aren't confident enough in their chops to be "the" guitarist. The problem is compounded by the idea that being the "rhythm" guitarist is somehow a lesser thing. The truth is that rhythm is a harder skill to master. Throw in a mediocre bass player that can't hold down the groove and "the" guitarist gets lost and erroneously feels like he needs a second guitarist which compounds the problem further with "dueling guitars". I've had offers to play rhythm but unless the bass player is a lot better than I (not likely) and is locked up tight with the drummer which is also a rarity, I pass. The 4th in a 4pc should never be anything but a killer on B3/keys.

I totally agree with the keboard player. Get a b3 and you hit the trifecta!

 

[Bassi5t]

I was in a 5 piece alt-rock band for a couple years... 2 guitars, keys and me on bass (my bass parts are a big more lively than your average bass part )

We all loved the music and respected each other, worked on the songs together and played a lot with harmonies between the instruments. Worked out super well; no one was walking a lover each other and No one was playing the same thing.

 

[tri2bob]

One guitar player is always enough. I only do four piece bands with keys & guitar and much happier for it. Although most guitar players sound too loud on stage but not so out front.

 

[TerribleTim68]

This is another never-ending debate. Clearly guitarists are egocentric, otherwise they wouldn't be in that position. Part of why I learned to play bass was because everybody wants to be the guitarist or the singer, but you can't have a band without a bass player, right? My old band had 2 lead guitarists, we always treated it as 2 leads. Not a lead and a rhythm, 2 leads. We let each have his time to shine. Some songs had a solo by one of them, while a different song would have a solo by the other guy. Some songs they would trade off solos, kind of like Queensryche did on some of their stuff. When it came to small riffs behind the rhythm lines it would be left to the guy who wrote the song. You want to noodle around during the verses? Write the song. The trick is to put together 2 guitarists who can work like that. Not all of them can. But when you hit on it you hit on something special. It's part of band dynamics, finding the right guys. As bass players it's easy for us to sit in the back and watch it unfold. It's a unique view back there!

All that said, I prefer 2 leads because it fills out the sound better. All those Van-Halen albums (and other one guitarist bands) where they dubbed a rhythm line behind the solos, you can't reproduce that live. But like I always say, TF do I know anyways.

 

[LBS-bass]

I totally agree with the keboard player. Get a b3 and you hit the trifecta!

Agree in theory, MUCH, easier said than done.

 

[4andnomore]

Playing originals I tend to avoid the dreaded "lead singer" who doesn't play an instrument. Cover band is another story.

 

[wluffman]

A three-piece band certainly simplifies the "who's playing what" factor, and there is a lot to be said for that. But The Beatles and Rolling Stones both incorporated two guitarists, and made some wonderful music. A lot depends on the relative strengths of the two guitarists, and how well they cooperate on lead/rhythm.

And consider the band Boston: two electric guitars, one acoustic guitar, and an organ (which sometimes took the lead role). Nothing wrong with their sound as far as I'm concerned -- because each player stayed in their proper space within the ensemble sound.

 

[TerribleTim68]

Playing originals I tend to avoid the dreaded "lead singer" who doesn't play an instrument. Cover band is another story.

My old band was actually 5-piece. 2 lead guitarists, me on bass, drummer and a singer who only sung. And.....we only did originals. The perfect storm?

 

[Old P Bass Guy]

V

I was in a 5 piece alt-rock band for a couple years... 2 guitars, keys and me on bass (my bass parts are a big more lively than your average bass part )

We all loved the music and respected each other, worked on the songs together and played a lot with harmonies between the instruments. Worked out super well; no one was walking a lover each other and No one was playing the same thing.

Very cool! It can be done but it requires good musicians dedicated to the group. Allmans, Dubies, Trucks Tedesky (?) Etc. All with multiple guitars. I never did quit know who was the lead in any of those groups.

 

[Old P Bass Guy]

Interesting comments from a pretty good guitar player.

 

[roccobass]

A bit of a shower thought, but every four piece band I've been in has been two overlapping three-piece bands, subtly duking it out.

I answered a 'bassist wanted' add recently, from a guy trying to put a psychedelic band together. After we all met together last night for the first time, I noticed something that I've noticed many times before...

Drummer goes out for a smoke, so one guitarist jumps on drums. Nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.

Drummer comes back, so guitarist gets back on guitar. Immediately the two guitarists are playing all over each other, trying to copy each other's riffs and licks, trampling around and vying for attention.

Guitarist goes out for a smoke and nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.


Every band I've been in with two guitarists has wound up like this. If one guitarist is sick/broke/stuck in traffic then a nice time is had by all. In all cases the guitarists have both had strong ideas for what direction the band should be going in, musically, and often there is a conflict there. One guy wants to play lighter poppier stuff, and the other guy wants to get heavier, for example. Take one guitarist, any guitarist, out the equation and calmness descends.

Imagine if Rush had another guitarist who stamped around all over Alex Lifeson's solos and then told them they should be going in a more Folkie direction...

Imagine if Cream had a guy strumming a Telecaster in the opposite corner to Clapton and telling them they should be playing more Beatles covers...

And of course you get guitarist volume wars developing as well, and the time spent setting up all their pedals and trying to work out which patch cable is dead...

Is one guitarist enough? Surely one is enough!

Sound more like a communication problem between your guitarists.

 

[3Liter]

I saw a two guitar band at a motorcycle rally last night. It appeared as if only one guitar was actually playing the music. They were on the bed of a truck and guitar 2 was off to the left side. On stage but the lights werent on him. However guitar 2 was rocking out like he was center stage. Since I couldn't really hear him I walked right up to the front. He had a Line 6 on top of a half stack cab. I think the half stack was the other guitar players who was hard stage right. Guitar 2 would run through the settings on the amp, swap picks and all manner of rock poses. At the front of the stage, I think the only one that could hear him, was him. It was truly the weirdest thing. I looked duo the band on Facebook and guitar 2 wasn't on their page. Odd..

 

[TerribleTim68]

I saw a two guitar band at a motorcycle rally last night. It appeared as if only one guitar was actually playing the music. They were on the bed of a truck and guitar 2 was off to the left side. On stage but the lights werent on him. However guitar 2 was rocking out like he was center stage. Since I couldn't really hear him I walked right up to the front. He had a Line 6 on top of a half stack cab. I think the half stack was the other guitar players who was hard stage right. Guitar 2 would run through the settings on the amp, swap picks and all manner of rock poses. At the front of the stage, I think the only one that could hear him, was him. It was truly the weirdest thing. I looked duo the band on Facebook and guitar 2 wasn't on their page. Odd..

Maybe he was a "Make A Wish" kid.

 

[3Liter]

Maybe he was a "Make A Wish" kid.

Well he was in his 50s. He might have been the guy that got them the gig.

 

[madmikebass]

Not much of a guitarist. But, I decided to start learning. Started following a guy on facebook. Not sure it’s ok to name names here, so I won’t.
He talks, a Lot, about comping, but rarely about rhythm playing. His take on it is that you need to accompany the other musicians and singer when you aren’t soloing. Thus the term comp. in other words, serve the song, and don’t walk all over other folks (singer, keyboard, or other lead guitarist) moment to shine. He is very into using small chords rather than full cowboy chords or barre chords.
The other thing he emphasizes is that regardless of whether you are a lead or rhythm guitarist, you will spend the vast majority of your time playing rhythm.
His bottom line is that every musician in the band has to work together as a team to make the entire band sound the best it can.
I happen to fully agree with him.

 

[Dexterzol]

Only played in one 2-guitarist group. I cranked the mids and out-noised them by huge margins Then again, they mostly chugged chords, and I did the fun stuff, so there's that.