Four-piece bands... am I right?

[4sight]

They just need to play well off each other. The Stones, Guns n' Roses (in the early days - listen to some of Izzy Stradlin's isolated rhythm tracks on YouTube). It's largely a know-your-role kind of thing, less ego, more teamwork.

 

[3Liter]

I've said this a few times recently. I've come to the realization that most bands out there on the local scene just simply want to get up on stage and play out in front of people. I truly think it's more of a desire to be seen on stage playing music as opposed to refining things in rehearsal and than taking it to a stage.

To be fair, a lot of these guys have a decent competency level, but at the end of the day bands need to rehearse on a regular basis to sound tight and iron out parts and arraignments.

Even for the jam band stuff I do I've come to view regular rehearsals as something that is needed. You can send a song list out, and people can learn their parts and show up and play and pull off something half decent, but it will not sound nearly as good as a band that has rehearsed and worked/talked stuff out.

Really, if half the bands I see/hear play live spent more time rehearsing and refining things there would be a lot more great bands out there. Sadly most folks just seem to want to go on stage and rip through tunes.

I posted a rant last week or so about us learning a new song and people not learning their parts. I agree. We all knew the parts, but just couldn't seem to get it together on that one. Even worse on some of the other stuff we play. Then rehearsal (where we could iron this stuff out) is sabotaged by 1.drummer playing through everyone talking. 2. harp guy fielding work calls and emails at 8pm 3. bassist showing up 10 minutes late and he lives the closest to me 4. other guitar player working out his riffs at volume. 5. drummer doing heaven knows what on his cell phone. 5. bassist who cant seem to get off his charts for repetitive blues numbers (yeah it went to the bridge twice and once last last time we screwed it up) 7. my errantly high expectations that the others would take this as seriously as I do and me (as nominal band leader) not nipping stuff like #1 and #4 and installing a cell phone jammer in the basement for 2 and 5. Sigh

 

[Groove Doctor]

It’s an issue of Musicianship and Professionalism, not the number of guitarists.

 

[glocke1]

I posted a rant last week or so about us learning a new song and people not learning their parts. I agree. We all knew the parts, but just couldn't seem to get it together on that one. Even worse on some of the other stuff we play. Then rehearsal (where we could iron this stuff out) is sabotaged by 1.drummer playing through everyone talking. 2. harp guy fielding work calls and emails at 8pm 3. bassist showing up 10 minutes late and he lives the closest to me 4. other guitar player working out his riffs at volume. 5. drummer doing heaven knows what on his cell phone. 5. bassist who cant seem to get off his charts for repetitive blues numbers (yeah it went to the bridge twice and once last last time we screwed it up) 7. my errantly high expectations that the others would take this as seriously as I do and me (as nominal band leader) not nipping stuff like #1 and #4 and installing a cell phone jammer in the basement for 2 and 5. Sigh

A lot of that sounds like issues with courtesy, maturity and professionalism.

Frankly there isn't anyway to fix that without either being a hardcore and having everyone hate you or just finding new players.

 

[Siggy]

Once played in a Skynard Tribute band. 9 pieces, 3 guitars. One of the best bands I've ever encountered. A real rarity, I feel blessed.

 

[Slinger]

I played in a 7-piece covers band with two other guitarists. One guy was strictly rhythm, the other two of us swapped lead and rhythm parts, or sometimes I'd jump on 2nd keyboards. No egos, no arguments. John and I each had our own songs to play lead on and there was never any need for one of us to fight the other.

 

[Machiavelli]

A bit of a shower thought, but every four piece band I've been in has been two overlapping three-piece bands, subtly duking it out.

I answered a 'bassist wanted' add recently, from a guy trying to put a psychedelic band together. After we all met together last night for the first time, I noticed something that I've noticed many times before...

Drummer goes out for a smoke, so one guitarist jumps on drums. Nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.

Drummer comes back, so guitarist gets back on guitar. Immediately the two guitarists are playing all over each other, trying to copy each other's riffs and licks, trampling around and vying for attention.

Guitarist goes out for a smoke and nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.


Every band I've been in with two guitarists has wound up like this. If one guitarist is sick/broke/stuck in traffic then a nice time is had by all. In all cases the guitarists have both had strong ideas for what direction the band should be going in, musically, and often there is a conflict there. One guy wants to play lighter poppier stuff, and the other guy wants to get heavier, for example. Take one guitarist, any guitarist, out the equation and calmness descends.

Imagine if Rush had another guitarist who stamped around all over Alex Lifeson's solos and then told them they should be going in a more Folkie direction...

Imagine if Cream had a guy strumming a Telecaster in the opposite corner to Clapton and telling them they should be playing more Beatles covers...

And of course you get guitarist volume wars developing as well, and the time spent setting up all their pedals and trying to work out which patch cable is dead...

Is one guitarist enough? Surely one is enough!

I completely agree that 2 guitars are unnecessary.

Besides the Beatles, Metallica , i cant think of a 2 guitar band I actually like.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Then there are bands like Foo Fighters, et al. Three guitarists! When I see bands set up like this, severe anxiety washes over me. I must have ptsd or something. What is the freakin point when it’s straight up rock and roll? If I see an ad for drums and three guitars seeking a bassist, I shake my head, close my laptop, and thank God that don’t have to deal with that ish.

Aprilwne, Molly Hatchet late career Iron Maiden : 3 guitars, it can work.

 

[hennessybass]

Rock guitar guys who have spent little to no time playing jazz just simply cannot comp and i think the concept is largely foreign to them. I was soloing the other week on a tune and the first chorus went well because someone (either keys or guitar) were comping for me. They stopped, and everything came to a screeching stop.

As far as the comment about Bass goes, in the jam band scene local to me, I see/hear a lot of guys playing fairly notey bass lines. they sound great, but the music just does not groove that well.

I think another thing that has generally hurt some skills like comping, and plying tasty in a group is that a LOT of plying now happens at home, solo, with a computer, youtube, or what ever... not actual people. In those cases the focus is 100% on what you are playing.

If you only ever play with backing tracks, you are missing a HUGE part of music. --- The computer isn't going to all the sudden change up from a 1/8 feel to a 1/16 feel for one chorus. The other guitar player in the computer track isn't going to try something new all the sudden that makes you change up your part. When you play with people that happens, and you have to respond in the moment - that's a skill that a lot of guys aren't developing playing at home.

With social media too, the goal for a lot of musicians is to make a good video of themselves that goes viral... A video of you comping for 3 minuets isn't going to get any looks or likes,,,, but thats the kind of skill that makes the music work.

Music is a conversation, not everyone can talk at the same time. The notes you don't play are just as important as the ones you do play... all that stuff.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

5 piece , Female lead, Male lead/acoustic rythm , lg,bg,drums.

Like to add pedal steel/keys/fiddle.
Or I may take that roll and get a bassist ...nah

 

[sears]

I am always in 3-piece bands where the guitarist wants another guitarist to "fill out the sound" and I'm always like, why? I say, I can do it, I play like Ron Wood or Elvis Costello, and they're like no, we need you on bass, which I guess is a compliment. Then the band goes nowhere while the guitarist is dissatisfied with the sound but unable to find an ego-free guitarist (which are apparently rare outside of major music scenes).

 

[bobalu]

IMO, this is a function of personality and maturity - not the number of guitars per say. There are plenty of 4 member bands that have been successful with that formulae (two guitars), both current and historically. The Beatles and Lynard Skynard come to mind off the top of my head. Some bands work best with 3, some with more......

 

[Wisebass]

Hi Axstar

Cool thread! Very good read! (Nobody bashing guitarists too hard )

Is one guitarist enough? Surely one is enough!

I play and played a lot of hard and heavy rock.

I always enjoyed playing with two guitars (I am a headbanger)

Nothing beats that wall of sound, that you can create with a good 4 piece. (IMO)

But that' s a lot of work when you want to do it right, especially in original bands.

You need some really good teamplayers!

Every band I've been in with two guitarists has wound up like this.

You should see the positive aspects:

1) The more guitars you have, the bigger the chances that one of them is in tune!

2) The other guy can go fetch the pizzas and the beer.

3) When you are angry, you can fire a guitarist instead of the drummer and then just rock on!


greetings

Wise(b)ass

 

[Slevage]

Think about the Allman Brothers where the two guitar players were a perfect team.
One would solo, the other would turn down an comp, then they would trade. And a lot of times, they would double the part, playing harmony lines together. Almost like a horn section in a jazz group.

It's a bit of an ego thing I think. It's about those particular guys and their larger music sensibilities and not so much about the fact that there are two guitars. Serving yourself, not the music. Same as a bass player (or whoever) overplaying.

IME, guitar players (in modern times) don't know how to comp very well. Probably as a result of the guitar hero culture created by superstars of the 60s and 70s that change the nature of guitar. You can see the same with some bass players where the bass is becoming more of a solo instrument instead of a support instrument largely because of guys like Jaco who changed the paradigm.

Since you mentioned Allman Bros,
I’ll throw in 38 Special and Skynard.

 

[Old P Bass Guy]

I play in two bands, one with two guitarists and one with three. Trust me, it can work great if they have the right attitude. All of the guitarists involved can play both lead and rhythm, and make a conscious effort to stay out of each others' way.

I agree, the good ones know how to compliment each other. For a 4 piece group I like drums, bass, keyboards & guitar.

 

[3Liter]

A lot of that sounds like issues with courtesy, maturity and professionalism.

Frankly there isn't anyway to fix that without either being a hardcore and having everyone hate you or just finding new players.

Yeah I know.

 

[Bodeanly]

Aprilwne, Molly Hatchet late career Iron Maiden : 3 guitars, it can work.

It can. But I was talking mostly about cover bands. If you have three guitars and most of your set is Green Day and Blink 182, you are doing it wrong.

 

[Wisebass]

If you have three guitars and most of your set is Green Day and Blink 182, you are doing it wrong.

You have to play Depeche Mode or you waste your time!

Wise(b)ass

 

[Bodeanly]

You have to play Depeche Mode or you waste your time!

Wise(b)ass

 

[Lobster11]

I agree, the good ones know how to compliment each other. For a 4 piece group I like drums, bass, keyboards & guitar.

Actually, I think it is less about how "good" one is and more about things like attitude, maturity, and ego, as many others have said. But you do have to be "good" enough to be capable of paying attention to what everyone else is doing and how the band sounds as a whole, rather than having to focus exclusively on playing your own part. That's a skill in its own right.