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Four-piece bands... am I right?

#101
I think Pearl Jam is another good example. Mike McCready mainly plays lead, and Stone Gossard mainly plays rhythm except they both write riffs together. I think the big thing, however, is that they both share soloing duties, enough so that they sound fantastic together (even Eddie Vedder jumps on a guitar sometimes). I think an important thing is that the guitarists write together, and agree on all the riffs (easier said than done however). If they share soloing "duties" then I think it's even better because both feel they are in the spotlight, even if one is playing rhythm when he/she is not soloing.
 
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#103
I started out on guitar so many years ago. It was always my plan to compliment and support the other guitar part in the context of the song. I did this by looking for the gaps and using a tone that didn’t clash. I also had a lot of fun and got a lot of cred by adapting horn or keyboard parts to the guitar. It’s all a matter of trying to make the music sound as good as you can. When ego enters the room, musical integrity leaves.
 
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#104
Outshined91 said:
I think Pearl Jam is another good example. Mike McCready mainly plays lead, and Stone Gossard mainly plays rhythm except they both write riffs together. I think the big thing, however, is that they both share soloing duties, enough so that they sound fantastic together (even Eddie Vedder jumps on a guitar sometimes). I think an important thing is that the guitarists write together, and agree on all the riffs (easier said than done however). If they share soloing "duties" then I think it's even better because both feel they are in the spotlight, even if one is playing rhythm when he/she is not soloing.
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Always my go to example. Those guys are amazing together. Band Of Horses is a great example of two or three rhythm players working nicely together too.
 
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#105
Guitarists absolutely have to work together. Personally, I prefer a two guitar or a guitar and keys band. The last band I was in that had a strictly rhythm guitarist was back in the 60s. And he was a great rhythm guitarist. Think early Lennon. A rare commodity these days.
 
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#107
Acoustic356 said:
There are 2 different types of musicians:
  • Those who can play with others
  • Those who cannot
If you're playing with musicians that are used to playing with others, they know how to leave space and not step on each other.
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I'd say there is a third type. That's the one who really kind of wants to try to stay out of the way but somehow seems compelled to offer his two cents, anyway. I think I'm dealing with this type.
 
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#112
Bodeanly said:
Then there are bands like Foo Fighters, et al. Three guitarists! When I see bands set up like this, severe anxiety washes over me. I must have ptsd or something. What is the freakin point when it’s straight up rock and roll?
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Often one guitar is too many. If a guitarist is an alpha but he’s not the BL and he won’t work with the rest of the band toward mutually agreeable arrangements then that somebody’s got to go. Lessee, Lynyrd Skynyrd had three guitars, Wishbone Ash, Blue Oyster Cult, Foo Fighters, Queens of the Stone Age, the Eagles, Iron Maiden. There are many more. If they can work together or there’s a BL who can leash ‘em in then it can work. That’ll happen if the music is more important than the star power wannabe.
 
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#114
Axstar said:
A bit of a shower thought, but every four piece band I've been in has been two overlapping three-piece bands, subtly duking it out.

I answered a 'bassist wanted' add recently, from a guy trying to put a psychedelic band together. After we all met together last night for the first time, I noticed something that I've noticed many times before...

Drummer goes out for a smoke, so one guitarist jumps on drums. Nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.

Drummer comes back, so guitarist gets back on guitar. Immediately the two guitarists are playing all over each other, trying to copy each other's riffs and licks, trampling around and vying for attention.

Guitarist goes out for a smoke and nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.


Every band I've been in with two guitarists has wound up like this. If one guitarist is sick/broke/stuck in traffic then a nice time is had by all. In all cases the guitarists have both had strong ideas for what direction the band should be going in, musically, and often there is a conflict there. One guy wants to play lighter poppier stuff, and the other guy wants to get heavier, for example. Take one guitarist, any guitarist, out the equation and calmness descends.

Imagine if Rush had another guitarist who stamped around all over Alex Lifeson's solos and then told them they should be going in a more Folkie direction...

Imagine if Cream had a guy strumming a Telecaster in the opposite corner to Clapton and telling them they should be playing more Beatles covers...

And of course you get guitarist volume wars developing as well, and the time spent setting up all their pedals and trying to work out which patch cable is dead...

Is one guitarist enough? Surely one is enough!
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Anymore Im finding 4-5 piece bands (2 guitars and KBs, bass, drums) to largely just be extremely chaotic. most people, even folks who have been playing for a long time just don't know how to play together. Way too much overplaying and competing for sonic space. I know I overplay and am more keenly aware of that than at any point before and am trying to get it under control, but it's difficult because there is sometimes so much playing being done by other band members.

In one band I really blame the drummer for a lot of it as he is literally at 11 all the time. No dynamics from this guy at all so he's pushing us to the edge of a cliff on just about every song.

I did a gig a couple of weeks ago where it was just myself, keys, drums and a guy on acoustic and frankly it was one of the more enjoyable gigs I've had.
 
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#115
hennessybass said:
IME, guitar players (in modern times) don't know how to comp very well. Probably as a result of the guitar hero culture created by superstars of the 60s and 70s that change the nature of guitar. You can see the same with some bass players where the bass is becoming more of a solo instrument instead of a support instrument largely because of guys like Jaco who changed the paradigm.
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Rock guitar guys who have spent little to no time playing jazz just simply cannot comp and i think the concept is largely foreign to them. I was soloing the other week on a tune and the first chorus went well because someone (either keys or guitar) were comping for me. They stopped, and everything came to a screeching stop.

As far as the comment about Bass goes, in the jam band scene local to me, I see/hear a lot of guys playing fairly notey bass lines. they sound great, but the music just does not groove that well.
 
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#116
In my first band, I've had two guitarists. One was exceptional, because he'd be playing what the song needs instead of playing what makes him stick out and shine. The other was simply the best guitar player (in his age) in a 50 mile radius. This worked out great.

In my current band, there are two guitarists. One, again, is the best player in a 50 mile radius (mind, I live in a rural area) while the other is the rare breed of a true rhythm guitarist. He also sings, so he gets his dose of the spotlight when he steps up to the mic.
 
#117
Theres a lot of talk about "maturity" and "ego" here. I think a lot of it could be attributed to "don't know what you don't know". Most players aren't reding forums like this looking to improve their craft. They just wanna play. The comparisons to pro full time bands... Im sure those guys spend TONs of time working together on parts.

The majority of this kinds of band folks discuss on Talkbass *seem* to be part time hobbiest bands that last 18 months all playing the same tunes. Not a lot of time to iron that stuff out before the band collapses and taking the common setlist to another band.

Gross generalizations but some truth. I offer no solutions either.
 
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#119
3Liter said:
Theres a lot of talk about "maturity" and "ego" here. I think a lot of it could be attributed to "don't know what you don't know". Most players aren't reding forums like this looking to improve their craft. They just wanna play. The comparisons to pro full time bands... Im sure those guys spend TONs of time working together on parts.

The majority of this kinds of band folks discuss on Talkbass *seem* to be part time hobbiest bands that last 18 months all playing the same tunes. Not a lot of time to iron that stuff out before the band collapses and taking the common setlist to another band.

Gross generalizations but some truth. I offer no solutions either.
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I've said this a few times recently. I've come to the realization that most bands out there on the local scene just simply want to get up on stage and play out in front of people. I truly think it's more of a desire to be seen on stage playing music as opposed to refining things in rehearsal and than taking it to a stage.

To be fair, a lot of these guys have a decent competency level, but at the end of the day bands need to rehearse on a regular basis to sound tight and iron out parts and arraignments.

Even for the jam band stuff I do I've come to view regular rehearsals as something that is needed. You can send a song list out, and people can learn their parts and show up and play and pull off something half decent, but it will not sound nearly as good as a band that has rehearsed and worked/talked stuff out.

Really, if half the bands I see/hear play live spent more time rehearsing and refining things there would be a lot more great bands out there. Sadly most folks just seem to want to go on stage and rip through tunes.
 
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