Four-piece bands... am I right?

[LBS-bass]

Maturity is a factor. And I don't mean chronological age. I opened for a band last night that had two guitarists, a lead singer, a keyboard player, a drummer, and a saxophone. They were pretty good, but one of the guitarists was clearly also the band leader and he was so up front and center all of the time that it was hard to hear the other guitar at all, and the keyboard player might as well not have even been there because he was inaudible.

Some friends came to see us and they brought some of their friends, none of them are musicians. At one point one of these friends said "this is so guitar-ey!" She was right. I told her i thought the main guitarist was just playing way too loud and drowning out everyone else.

Maybe it was just a bad mix, but I have a feeling it could have been so much better. They all seemed to be competent musicians, just couldn't really hear most of them.

 

[LBS-bass]

This is probably as much due to the soloist as anything. A good solo will outline the chords and punctuate relevant rhythmic points. Bland scale runs sound boring and dull with or without accompaniment.

Yep, but players who can do that seem pretty rare. I'll play in a trio with that guy all day long. Send him over

 

[Stumbo]

Yeah, and people who know their stuff don't have to put up with that. I already had one keyboard player decline to join this band a few years ago because of similar antics and I'm determined I'm not going to let anyone in this band squash the creative abilities of this new guy. He has so much to bring to this table but they need to let him loose to do it.

Seems to me the band needs a MD and BL...

 

[crazyBassClown]

Yep, but players who can do that seem pretty rare. I'll play in a trio with that guy all day long. Send him over

You'll have to pry him from my cold dead hands......if i ever find him.

 

[ArtechnikA]

You need to get guitarists with less egos. Playing off of another player is one of the,most fun things to do.

You know this.
I know this.
Too few guitar players know this.
Lately I've had to work with the hand I'm dealt.
Not sure when I'll be ready to build up a project on my own again - BTDT, it's rough.

 

[LBS-bass]

Seems to me the band needs a MD and BL...

You're probably right about that, but the wannabes on both of those scores are the least suited to those respective jobs. It's an agreed-upon democracy, which works sometimes but not other times. It's not without its share of problems but the musicianship is mostly above average and we (generally) get along well, so we all put up with the quirks.

 

[Stumbo]

You're probably right about that, but the wannabes on both of those scores are the least suited to those respective jobs. It's an agreed-upon democracy, which works sometimes but not other times. It's not without its share of problems but the musicianship is mostly above average and we (generally) get along well, so we all put up with the quirks.

BUT...if you're the one who observes and reacts to the quirks...uhhhh...default MD and BL.

 

[buldog5151bass]

You know this.
I know this.
Too few guitar players know this.
Lately I've had to work with the hand I'm dealt.
Not sure when I'll be ready to build up a project on my own again - BTDT, it's rough.

Show them recordings , Allmans, Skynyrd, Hotel California. Even a Neanderthal guitarist can appreciate this. I would say play them some jazz with the musicians trading fours, but we don't want them to get an aneurysm.

 

[obimark]

A bit of a shower thought, but every four piece band I've been in has been two overlapping three-piece bands, subtly duking it out.

I answered a 'bassist wanted' add recently, from a guy trying to put a psychedelic band together. After we all met together last night for the first time, I noticed something that I've noticed many times before...

Drummer goes out for a smoke, so one guitarist jumps on drums. Nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.

Drummer comes back, so guitarist gets back on guitar. Immediately the two guitarists are playing all over each other, trying to copy each other's riffs and licks, trampling around and vying for attention.

Guitarist goes out for a smoke and nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.


Every band I've been in with two guitarists has wound up like this. If one guitarist is sick/broke/stuck in traffic then a nice time is had by all. In all cases the guitarists have both had strong ideas for what direction the band should be going in, musically, and often there is a conflict there. One guy wants to play lighter poppier stuff, and the other guy wants to get heavier, for example. Take one guitarist, any guitarist, out the equation and calmness descends.

Imagine if Rush had another guitarist who stamped around all over Alex Lifeson's solos and then told them they should be going in a more Folkie direction...

Imagine if Cream had a guy strumming a Telecaster in the opposite corner to Clapton and telling them they should be playing more Beatles covers...

And of course you get guitarist volume wars developing as well, and the time spent setting up all their pedals and trying to work out which patch cable is dead...

Is one guitarist enough? Surely one is enough!

Absolutely- I never got anything out of two guitar bands. One guitarist was ALWAYS doubling my bass part with tons of bass tone, so it literally sounded like two basses! and it sucked!

With one guitar I can hear every note I am playing and expand the basslines out some.

 

[LBS-bass]

BUT...if you're the one who observes and reacts to the quirks...uhhhh...default MD and BL.

Shoot me now.

 

[crazyBassClown]

Show them recordings , Allmans, Skynyrd, Hotel California. Even a Neanderthal guitarist can appreciate this.

There is an ocean between appreciating and understanding enough to create new parts using those techniques.

 

[buldog5151bass]

There is an ocean between appreciating and understanding enough to create new parts using those techniques.

You don't have to go crazy. Listen to the other player. Trade off shorter solos, or play a rhythm part that supports what they are playing. It also is a lot more interesting to the audience.

 

[crazyBassClown]

You don't have to go crazy. Listen to the other player. Trade off shorter solos, or play a rhythm part that supports what they are playing. It also is a lot more interesting to the audience.

I take it you've never tried to get a guitar player that doesn't know how to do this already to actually do it then? People usually either get it or they don't, and making someone who doesn't get it, get it is something not to be undertaken lightly.

 

[Nephilymbass]

A bit of a shower thought, but every four piece band I've been in has been two overlapping three-piece bands, subtly duking it out.

I answered a 'bassist wanted' add recently, from a guy trying to put a psychedelic band together. After we all met together last night for the first time, I noticed something that I've noticed many times before...

Drummer goes out for a smoke, so one guitarist jumps on drums. Nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.

Drummer comes back, so guitarist gets back on guitar. Immediately the two guitarists are playing all over each other, trying to copy each other's riffs and licks, trampling around and vying for attention.

Guitarist goes out for a smoke and nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.


Every band I've been in with two guitarists has wound up like this. If one guitarist is sick/broke/stuck in traffic then a nice time is had by all. In all cases the guitarists have both had strong ideas for what direction the band should be going in, musically, and often there is a conflict there. One guy wants to play lighter poppier stuff, and the other guy wants to get heavier, for example. Take one guitarist, any guitarist, out the equation and calmness descends.

Imagine if Rush had another guitarist who stamped around all over Alex Lifeson's solos and then told them they should be going in a more Folkie direction...

Imagine if Cream had a guy strumming a Telecaster in the opposite corner to Clapton and telling them they should be playing more Beatles covers...

And of course you get guitarist volume wars developing as well, and the time spent setting up all their pedals and trying to work out which patch cable is dead...

Is one guitarist enough? Surely one is enough!

I think it depends on the guitarists. I spent many years happily playing in a band with just one guitarist. And I get where you are coming from. I played in a few bands with two over the years, and my current band has two. I think the reason my current band works is everyone stays in their lane. There is a rhythm guitarist and there is a lead guitarist. They don’t really switch off. If the rhythm guitarist does any lead stuff it’s simply adding a harmony to the lead players part. And no one else in the band really wants to play drums. Everyone focuses on their own role. In a similar way that bass and guitar have their own roles. Thinking back every other band I’ve played with that had two guitarist that were frustrating it was because the guitarist were both too similar. Like two rhythm guitarist or two lead guitarist. Some people like having two guitars playing the same thing for the doubling/fuller/stereo vibe, but you can buy a doubler pedal and pull that off these days with one guitarist.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

A bit of a shower thought, but every four piece band I've been in has been two overlapping three-piece bands, subtly duking it out.

I answered a 'bassist wanted' add recently, from a guy trying to put a psychedelic band together. After we all met together last night for the first time, I noticed something that I've noticed many times before...

Drummer goes out for a smoke, so one guitarist jumps on drums. Nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.

Drummer comes back, so guitarist gets back on guitar. Immediately the two guitarists are playing all over each other, trying to copy each other's riffs and licks, trampling around and vying for attention.

Guitarist goes out for a smoke and nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.


Every band I've been in with two guitarists has wound up like this. If one guitarist is sick/broke/stuck in traffic then a nice time is had by all. In all cases the guitarists have both had strong ideas for what direction the band should be going in, musically, and often there is a conflict there. One guy wants to play lighter poppier stuff, and the other guy wants to get heavier, for example. Take one guitarist, any guitarist, out the equation and calmness descends.

Imagine if Rush had another guitarist who stamped around all over Alex Lifeson's solos and then told them they should be going in a more Folkie direction...

Imagine if Cream had a guy strumming a Telecaster in the opposite corner to Clapton and telling them they should be playing more Beatles covers...

And of course you get guitarist volume wars developing as well, and the time spent setting up all their pedals and trying to work out which patch cable is dead...

Is one guitarist enough? Surely one is enough!

Not trying to date myself too awful much, but the Doobies seem to have pulled it off rather nicely. Seriously, it depends if the two guitarists actually communicate with each other and work out parts or not.

 

[LBS-bass]

I take it you've never tried to get a guitar player that doesn't know how to do this already to actually do it then? People usually either get it or they don't, and making someone who doesn't get it, get it is something not to be undertaken lightly.

Yes, I think a lot of it has to do with how they learned to play. Guys with classical and jazz training know how to incorporate their solo ideas into a structured, chordal background and keep it all going on. People with less formal training often just do not have the tools for this.

 

[Magthegrate]

We have two. One plays rhythm on an acoustic, the other plays lead. The rhythm guy is singing. There's not really any overlap.

 

[MMiller28]

When I hear "four-piece band" I ideally think guitar, bass, keys, drums. So many more possibilities.

 

[Session1969]

A bit of a shower thought, but every four piece band I've been in has been two overlapping three-piece bands, subtly duking it out.

I answered a 'bassist wanted' add recently, from a guy trying to put a psychedelic band together. After we all met together last night for the first time, I noticed something that I've noticed many times before...

Drummer goes out for a smoke, so one guitarist jumps on drums. Nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.

Drummer comes back, so guitarist gets back on guitar. Immediately the two guitarists are playing all over each other, trying to copy each other's riffs and licks, trampling around and vying for attention.

Guitarist goes out for a smoke and nice, pleasant guitar + bass + jam develops.


Every band I've been in with two guitarists has wound up like this. If one guitarist is sick/broke/stuck in traffic then a nice time is had by all. In all cases the guitarists have both had strong ideas for what direction the band should be going in, musically, and often there is a conflict there. One guy wants to play lighter poppier stuff, and the other guy wants to get heavier, for example. Take one guitarist, any guitarist, out the equation and calmness descends.

Imagine if Rush had another guitarist who stamped around all over Alex Lifeson's solos and then told them they should be going in a more Folkie direction...

Imagine if Cream had a guy strumming a Telecaster in the opposite corner to Clapton and telling them they should be playing more Beatles covers...

And of course you get guitarist volume wars developing as well, and the time spent setting up all their pedals and trying to work out which patch cable is dead...

Is one guitarist enough? Surely one is enough!

That's not the type of two guitar band I'd spend my time with. You do get a fuller sound with two (or three or four for country) guitars, imo. I've recently played with a band that had guitarists that knew how to compliment one another. No egos, everyone was trying to make the band sound good. I've also played with a band that had a hired gun who had no understanding of that concept in his playing and it sucked.

 

[bassliner50]

Loose one or both guitarists. Find (if you can) a legit piano/keyboard player. Those negative issues will magically disappear. All of a sudden the combo is much more musical.