Fractal Audio Club

[Moon Safari]

I'm new to bass amps and I'm trying to emulate the gritty and punchy Robert DeLeo sound on my Fractal FM9 MKII Turbo (aside from playing very hard with low action, what a beast!). I've read that his tone on the Core album was a pushed Ampeg, possibly split with a DI? "That record was just an SVT with a Sennheiser 421 mic on it. Brendan would just set a mic up and say, 'Okay, let’s go.'"

The Purple album has some amazing tones I'm after too, so I'm mainly looking for how to achieve the Fractal equivalent of that setup which is actually from their Live rig: Alembic FX1 preamp, QSC MX1500 poweramp, 3x Eden 2x12s and 3 Eden 4x10s.

For the driven Ampeg sound, do you use the Preamp and the Drive control, or just the Drive? I've been experimenting (EQ and drive blocks included), but I'm still missing the tight, bright and punchy tone I hear on the record. Sex Type Thing is a great example of the pushed sound I'm after:



I'm fairly certain that DeLeo used his G&L 2000 on "Plush" (similar to a Stingray AFAIK). I have a Jazz Bass with DR Sunbeams. I know I won't get a perfect match for that active, midrange sound, but how close can I expect to get with some tweaks to compensate for that?

Plush isolated bass track:


I'm really looking to nail the tone for Interstate Love Song as a starting point for the Purple Album.

Interstate Love Song isolated bass:

 

[jimfist]

STP & Robert DeLeo are on my short list of all-time favorites. Generally speaking, you should be able to get close to any of those sounds, but you may want to experiment with the various Ampeg amp models in the FM9 to see if one is suited better than the other. I'm an SVT fan and have been able to get these sort of tones without too much trouble with just varied amounts of overdrive from the input gain. They can get a little mushy when driven hard, so I do use parallel processing in various forms and blend the amp with the parallel path to keep things punchy in the low end.

There are so many strategies you can try:
- parallel path with GEQ or PEQ afterward to shape the tone being mixed with the amp model path. Ok to EQ aggressively to compliment the amp tone.
- try the amp block both with and without the Cab block engaged, and EQ this tone to taste
- try using an FET compressor after the amp block. If find this works well on bass and adds some 'flavor' when it compresses. Employ mix/blend to taste.

Also, it seems like the bass tone from the instrument has much to do with the end result, so if you have a P/J or J/J pickup on a traditional bass this should be fine. Robert also seems to play with fingers down at the bridge, which also is key.

 

[lucien2]

I have an FM3 as a guitarist and am putting together a live bass rig but I don’t have an amp right now. Just a 4x10 cab. I’m shopping for head units but it just occurred to me…. Could I set up a decent preset in the FM3, disable the speaker IR, run it to a power amp and then to this 4x10?

 

[FretRiff]

He used a tech 21 preamp, Ampeg svts, Marshall guitar amps for distortion, synth pedals, and Fryette power amps into ampeg fridges and marshall stacks. If you want good enough, a p bass into an svt, and the occasional chorus pedal will cover most of it. Oh, and the sunglasses.

According to Robert himself... the signal was split between an Ampeg SVT and a Fender Bassman with a wha pedal half way engaged.

Fractal units can emulate the split signal chain setup DeLeo supposedly used. You could do Ampeg SVT on the clean side, Fender Bassman on the dirty, add in a wah block, add in Sansamp in the Drive block or Tube/MidBoost in the amp, and play with octave/envelope/synth for experimental tones. Then blend the 2 chains.

 

[stubbsonic]

I have an FM3 as a guitarist and am putting together a live bass rig but I don’t have an amp right now. Just a 4x10 cab. I’m shopping for head units but it just occurred to me…. Could I set up a decent preset in the FM3, disable the speaker IR, run it to a power amp and then to this 4x10?

Seems reasonable. The question is just what to do when you want to send the amp+cab out to FOH, and send amp-sans-cab to your stage rig. Can you split the signal right before the cab block?

 

[lucien2]

Seems reasonable. The question is just what to do when you want to send the amp+cab out to FOH, and send amp-sans-cab to your stage rig. Can you split the signal right before the cab block?

hmmm good question. I don't anticipate gigs large enough to have DI FOH requirements but one never knows. I think it may be more elegant, and not much more money simply to buy a new head for this cab. And use the FM3 as I always have, for studio work.

 

[stubbsonic]

hmmm good question. I don't anticipate gigs large enough to have DI FOH requirements but one never knows. I think it may be more elegant, and not much more money simply to buy a new head for this cab. And use the FM3 as I always have, for studio work.

The other question is would you have any other use for the full range (PA) power amp, besides the bass rig? (e.g., for amping an FRFR passive cab for guitar, or using it to run a PA with passive speakers?) Seems unlikely, but that might be a reason to opt for a PA amp as opposed to a bass head.

 

[Moon Safari]

Heads up, Fractal's bass update is available as beta firmware on the FM9 now, just installed and I'm off to play with the new goodies!

FM9 Firmware Version 11.0 public beta #1

FM9 Firmware Version 11.0 public beta is now available for download: https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/firmware-presets/fm9/11p0/fm9_dsp_rel_11p00_public_beta_1.zip An updated version of FM9-Edit is required for use with this release...

forum.fractalaudio.com

NEW FEATURES & UPDATES

IMPROVED AMP MODELING
● Improved Preamp Modelling delivers more accurate harmonic response and better feel.
NOTE: The Preamp Tube Hardness parameter functions differently now. Existing presets are automatically updated to the default value for the selected amp model.
● Improved Power Amp Modeling brings a more controlled low end, especially for non- Master Volume amps.
● Added Suhr Reactive Load Speaker Impedance Curve.

NEW DRIVE PEDAL MODELS
● New “PI Fuzz – Bass” model based on a Deluxe Bass Big Muff Pi.
● New “NoAmp Bass DI” based on a SansAmp™ BassDriver DI.
● New “NoAmp Bass Pre” based on a SansAmp™ BassDriver DI with the speaker emulation bypassed. This can be used into a Cabinet block or as a boost into an Amp block.
● New “Royal Bass DI” based on a Noble™ Bass Preamp DI. The model has been modified with more gain so that it can be overdriven. With the Drive knob at 5.00 the gain is the same as the actual preamp. Also, instead of a Low Cut switch, the model uses an adjustable Low Cut control.

NEW GRAPHIC EQ MODELS
● Added “7 Band Pedal” Graphic EQ type based on a Boss™ GE-7.
● Added “7 Band Bass Pedal” Graphic EQ type based on a Boss™ GE-7B.

NEW SURROUND DELAY
● Added “Surround Delay” type to the Delay block. This type produces “rotating” echoes that seem to move around the listener. The Rotation parameter determines how rapidly the echoes rotate. With Rotation at 100% the echoes will rotate 180 degrees each time (front, back, front, etc). At 50% the echoes will rotate 90 degrees (front, right, back, left, front, etc.). Negative values will cause the echoes to rotate in the opposite direction.

NEW DYNACABS & CAB BLOCK IMPROVEMENTS
● Added “1x8 Princetone” DynaCab™ captured from a 5F2 Tweed Princeton w/ a very nice sounding 8” Jupiter speaker. Added corresponding Speaker Impedance Curve.
● Added “1x12 Black Magick” DynaCab captured from a Supro Black Magick with a Jensen P12Q speaker.
● Added “8x10 SV Bass” DynaCab captured from an Ampeg SVT. Added corresponding Speaker Impedance Curve. Thanks to Mike "Dr. Bonkers" Santasiero for the files from his DynaCab Pack, "Dr. Bonkers 8x10 S Bass". If you like the factory DynaCab “sampler” you can purchase the pack for Cab Lab at https://shop.fractalaudio.com
NOTE: Updated auto-impedance mapping in the Amp block to use the new DynaCabs where appropriate.
● Added “Auto Align” switch to the Cab block for DynaCab mode.When ON, individual DynaCabs at any distance are automatically time-aligned to ensure proper phase. When OFF, increasing mic Distance also adds the corresponding delay, simulating real-world microphone behavior where delay increases with mic distance. With either setting, the individual alignment Delay parameters can still be used to add additional delay.

Note that the actual delay can be less than the displayed delay as all IR delays are normalized to the shortest delay (so as to minimize overall latency). The Align tab has been changed to display the delay in ms rather than mm to reduce confusion with the Distance parameters. NOTE: Existing presets will have Auto Align set to ON as this was the prior behavior.

PITCH SHIFTER UPDATES
● A new Tracking Mode parameter has been added to the Synth and Ring Mod blocks. It has two options:
○ Guitar – Default behavior, optimized for standard guitar range.
○ Bass – Shifts detection down one octave. In this mode, tracking works down to approximately F♯0.
● Increased upper range of the pitch detectors to approximately F♯6 (High E, 24th fret, whole step bend).

OTHER UPDATES
● Added On/Off switch for the Metronome. This can be controlled remotely by setting the desired control source in the MIDI/Remote -> Other menu.

FIXES
● Changed name of “1x12 Brit G12M” impedance curve (obtained from a 1x12 CJ11) to “1x12 Div13 CJ11”.
● Fixed wrong value in Deluxe Verb Normal model. Remastered model as a result.
● Fixed a wrong value in Deluxe Verb, Double Verb, Super Verb, Vibroverb, Div/13 FT37, Double Verb Silverface.
● Moved "Mix" tab after "Advanced" tab in Drive and Delay blocks.
● Improved accuracy of Sustain control vs. position in PI Fuzz models.
● Fixed a resistor value in the Blackglass 7K model. Remastered the model as a result.
● Fixed incorrect gain in Colortone Booster and Colortone OD models.
● Fixed Modern Gate type can get stuck closed if input above threshold during boot.
● Disabled preset changes while the STORE page is displayed to prevent “behind-the-scenes” preset changes.
● Corrected Spillover “Off” behavior to prevent a burst in some cases when using Delays and Reverbs
Fixed - Spillover OFF with REVERB2 over preset changes
● Fixed a gain issue in the Wah block.
● Fixed a freeze when selecting unavailable Modifier.
● Various other small fixes

 

[jimfist]

Waiting patiently for for the official release. Really looking forward to this one.

 

[jimfist]

Totally out of the blue, Fractal just today introduced a new pedal: The AM4 is primarily an amp modeler, designed like the VP4 effects pedal, and clearly a companion piece. Though it features the entire list of Fractal amps & dynacabs (& custom IR loading), it does have a nice complement of effects, though not all of the ones offered in the VP4 (or AxeFx/FM3/FM9). All of the recent drive block bass stuff is included ( Nobel DI, updated B7k, SansAmp BDDI with and without cab sim, Big Muff Pi Bass), as well as all the legacy bass amps.

For bassists, this is a great way to get Fractal quality amp, cab & drive pedal modeling, along with basic effects. The format is 4 switches, and generally the easiest of all Fractal pedals to wrap your head around. I hesitate to say "basic" effects because the effects offered are very robust. Ditto for "easiest" to operate since they do pack a ton of programmability into this box. $699USD. Only TRS balanced out...no XLR.

https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/AM4/AM4-Owners-Manual.pdf

 

[Les Fret]

Totally out of the blue, Fractal just today introduced a new pedal: The AM4 is primarily an amp modeler, designed like the VP4 effects pedal, and clearly a companion piece. Though it features the entire list of Fractal amps & dynacabs (& custom IR loading), it does have a nice complement of effects, though not all of the ones offered in the VP4 (or AxeFx/FM3/FM9). All of the recent drive block bass stuff is included ( Nobel DI, updated B7k, SansAmp BDDI with and without cab sim, Big Muff Pi Bass), as well as all the legacy bass amps.

For bassists, this is a great way to get Fractal quality amp, cab & drive pedal modeling, along with basic effects. The format is 4 switches, and generally the easiest of all Fractal pedals to wrap your head around. I hesitate to say "basic" effects because the effects offered are very robust. Ditto for "easiest" to operate since they do pack a ton of programmability into this box. $699USD. Only TRS balanced out...no XLR.

https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/AM4/AM4-Owners-Manual.pdf

View attachment 7375359

But only 4 blocks per preset and no pitch shifter. That’s not going to do it for me.

 

[jimfist]

But only 4 blocks per preset and no pitch shifter. That’s not going to do it for me.

Certainly. I'm with you on that from a general standpoint, but the AM4 wasn't intended to be a comprehensive all-in-one product like the FM3 or FM9. The real next-generation stuff is way down the road, and I'm more interested in those developments.

The AM4 is targeted at those who are happy with a more limited format focused on amp/cab modeling, solid core effects, retaining high quality, but at a manageable price. When you compare the cost of a dedicated quality preamp pedal and a quality compressor pedal, you can get to $699 pretty quickly (see Origin Effects, Darkglass, Empress, EBS, Ampeg, et al).

The key to this is the Fractal pedigree, which is arguably much more important to guitarists that bassists, though recent bass-centric additions have made things a lot more interesting. JMHO, but I've been sold on Fractal's quality standards for many years. Their choices in bass amp/cab/drive modeling is a different story, but the quality has always been top tier.

 

[Les Fret]

The real next-generation stuff is way down the road, and I'm more interested in those developments.

Yes. I am hoping for something really new. New blocks, new algorithms etc.
Now it seems like they are just rehousing the same stuff in different condensed forms. AM4, VP4, FM3 and FM9 are all just the Axe Fx 3 in stripped down version. One more stripped than the other. Hoping for something really new and more inventive Fractal stuff for the future.

 

[jimfist]

Manufacturing digital multi-fx products is a very difficult business for a small operation like Fractal, given the competition out there and generally much deeper pockets, advertising & distribution of Line 6/Yamaha & Boss/Roland, and others. It's tricky to cater exclusively to the high-end market, so it seemed inevitable that they'd eventually have to court the middle of the market somehow.

The request for Fractal amp/cab modeling in a smaller pedal format has historically been very popular. The FM3 works for a those who wanted a smaller format without serious compromise to the overall features of the AxeFx, but still a bit too big and overwhelming for those who just want the nuts-and-bolts of the Amp/cab modeling. From all reports, Fractal has in fact nailed down a sweet spot based (anecdotally) on AM4 initial sales.

For bassists, the battle with Fractal continues to be getting the additions of amp/cab models ( specifically Aguilar, GK, Acoustic, SWR, and others). They recently took a small step in the right direction ( SansAmp BDDI, Noble DI, bass mode for pitch detection!). Honestly, IMO, they really don't need to add that much more to make Fractal more broadly appealing for bassists using modelers. I'd go so far as to say that, currently, most could be very happy with the existing set of tools and models. Next Gen products are adding NAM in some form, so all this could become something of a moot point.

We shall see.

 

[Bass Ape]

I for one am extremely happy with the existing set of tools in my FM3. I’ve owned it for about 6 months and I’m still just scratching the surface.

 

[jimfist]

Over my career, I split my time between playing bass, recording, live and studio mixing. I always view the deep engineering aspects of Fractal gear as being part of my continued audio education, thus I'm not put off by the rabbit hole. I can appreciate that others just want to plug in, get a good sound and go. I think the AM4 targets those players, even though you can deep dive via the Expert settings if you want.

 

[Meriphew]

The AM4 looks very interesting to me as mainly a guitarist who also plays bass. For not much more than you would spend on an Origin BassRig modeler, you get a whole lot more feature/flexibility wise.

 

[stubbsonic]

And Fractal kind of hit the sweet spot in terms of connectivity-- for this price point. With the stereo Send/Return insert, and MIDI i/o, it's hard to complain. You could put your can't live without FX in the insert when you want. Does it let you manipulate the insert point in the path? Are there any parallel path options or is it all series?

 

[Challanger2]

Manufacturing digital multi-fx products is a very difficult business for a small operation like Fractal, given the competition out there and generally much deeper pockets, advertising & distribution of Line 6/Yamaha & Boss/Roland, and others. It's tricky to cater exclusively to the high-end market, so it seemed inevitable that they'd eventually have to court the middle of the market somehow.

The request for Fractal amp/cab modeling in a smaller pedal format has historically been very popular. The FM3 works for a those who wanted a smaller format without serious compromise to the overall features of the AxeFx, but still a bit too big and overwhelming for those who just want the nuts-and-bolts of the Amp/cab modeling. From all reports, Fractal has in fact nailed down a sweet spot based (anecdotally) on AM4 initial sales.

For bassists, the battle with Fractal continues to be getting the additions of amp/cab models ( specifically Aguilar, GK, Acoustic, SWR, and others). They recently took a small step in the right direction ( SansAmp BDDI, Noble DI, bass mode for pitch detection!). Honestly, IMO, they really don't need to add that much more to make Fractal more broadly appealing for bassists using modelers. I'd go so far as to say that, currently, most could be very happy with the existing set of tools and models. Next Gen products are adding NAM in some form, so all this could become something of a moot point.

We shall see.

Why are bassists so keen to get solid state models in there like GK? I feel like I’d just buy one of those amps if I wanted them. To me the value of fractal (and modelers in general) is the ability to get SVT/Mesa 400/other tube amp tones without needing to haul a 80lbs amp head around or paying $500 for a complete retube kit.

I hear the next gen of fractal products will support NAM, so if that pans out I feel like that should cover the solid state needs really well, as they should be pretty easy to profile.

 

[Challanger2]

The AM4 looks very interesting to me as mainly a guitarist who also plays bass. For not much more than you would spend on an Origin BassRig modeler, you get a whole lot more feature/flexibility wise.

The value proposition of the VP4, AM4 and FM3 are very high for bassists (I currently have an axe FX3 and VP4, considering getting an AM4 as well). I originally just had the 3, but hauling around the whole rack unit was a lot. Plus I use it as the brains of my home studio, so I’d have to disconnect all my home gear like studio monitors, 4CM setup for my 2C++ guitar amp at home, etc. I’ve got a Mesa 800D amp on the way and want to compare the bass 400 preamp on the axe fx 3 into the 800D power amp vs the 800D preamp, as the 800D has the deep/bright switches and the bass 400 model has the bass and treble shifts, which are voiced a bit different. If I like the way the 400 sounds with my axe FX 3, I’ll probably grab an AM4 as well. I’m sure the 800D will sound great, but since I play in a Metallica cover band with three guitars, slight differences will make a huge difference in how I sit in the mix.

One thing I think that flies under the radar a bit is how good fractals compressors are, especially with the recent model remasters. The 1176 (studio something, can’t remember model name and I’m away from home for the holiday), optical (LA2A-ish) and tube compressors are exceptional.