Fractal FM3 FM9 vs Quad Cortex vs Helix and others.

[backin82]

A HX stomp with sushibox fx "finally" and "more" pedals to make it feel nicer to play? The sounds are very good, yes you might get a slightly better sound from the QC or Fractal, but you'd get a better sound from higher quality amplification anyway, and the bass specific items as others have said are really well done on the stomp.
Although to be honest I still prefer using my full pedalboard so my opinion probably isn't that valid, I'm not a modeller convert.

As an aside... I tried a lot of amp models over the years, and none of them really seemed to do much....until my band recently converted to a semi-ampless stage setup. Once you switch to primarily monitoring yourself through IEM, the entire game changes, and modeling becomes much more noticeable. I'm currently re-making my tone from scratch in new presets, because the ones I used previously just sound so different.

I've also found that adding a touch of reverb mixed to 10-15% with a short-ish decay on the bass makes it sound a lot more natural (as if you're in an actual room) compared to running it completely dry.

 

[burpgun]

I'm pretty much a Tech21 guy for "modelers" and rely on a VT Bass for, well, bass, and have used their Blonde and GT2 for guitar and love them in a recording context, which is all I do anymore. I also have Helix Native and it has plenty of solid models of guitar and bass. I've never messed around with Fractal stuff but a band I love, Failure, is heavily into that system and they get KILLER bass sounds, for what it's worth.

 

[chris1327]

question from a noob over here: when performing live, are you guys using these modelers just for yourself, or does the entire band (sans drums) use it as the platform?

 

[ga_edwards]

Another vote for the Helix.

I use a Helix LT and both of the guitarists in my band use the Helix Floor. Dead simple to program without a computer (but HX Edit makes it even easier) and sounds great. There's more than enough bass specific amp/cab models and effects for most bassists and the routing options are incredibly versatile. The only weakness is synths. There's a quite few usable options added in one of the more recent updates, but they're not in the same league as the Future Impact or Source Audio C4.

 

[ga_edwards]

I bought the HX Effects for my guitars. There's no amp modelling, only effects. But when looking at the distortion models I found a Tech21 BDDI and a Darkglass B7K. I gave the BDDI a try, and even if the video I watched about the hardware model were not my cup of tea, I really like it on the HX Effects.

The last update added a Noble DI model (called Regal DI) to the distortion models too. It sounds great.

 

[DonaldR]

Yep, that's what I said in my post.

 

[DonaldR]

@Ögon have you looked at the Line 6 Pod Express Bass?

There's 6 bass amp models from the Helix:
ROUND: Ampeg® B-15NF Portaflex®
GRIT: Ampeg SVT® (normal channel)
VINTAGE: Fender® Bassman® Silver Panel
PUNCH: Gallien-Krueger® GK 800RB
MODERN: Darkglass® Electronics Microtubes® B7K Ultra
STUDIO: Aguilar® Tone Hammer
DEEP: MESA/Boogie® M9 Carbine

 

[IvanBassist]

I’ve been using my quad cortex for the last 2 1/2 years on tour and have played close to 200 shows with it + in-ears.

Before buying it, i was very reluctant about using modelers or multi-fx for live playing, because I’ve been in several situations where other players really struggled to adjust things during soundcheck or the nature of the modeler just slowed things down in situations where you are required to be quick.

This all changed for me when the QC was released, because it is super intuitive to use and it simply sounds great.

There are several videos on my YT channel of me using the unit on stage.

 

[Ögon]

@Ögon have you looked at the Line 6 Pod Express Bass?

There's 6 bass amp models from the Helix:
ROUND: Ampeg® B-15NF Portaflex®
GRIT: Ampeg SVT® (normal channel)
VINTAGE: Fender® Bassman® Silver Panel
PUNCH: Gallien-Krueger® GK 800RB
MODERN: Darkglass® Electronics Microtubes® B7K Ultra
STUDIO: Aguilar® Tone Hammer
DEEP: MESA/Boogie® M9 Carbine

I had not. And now i did.. Oh boy, it's very overpriced and bad sounding. Listen to this:

 

[backin82]

question from a noob over here: when performing live, are you guys using these modelers just for yourself, or does the entire band (sans drums) use it as the platform?

Great question. I'm planning to run mine where FOH/monitors get my actual signal, not a dry output. The Helix doesn't have a true bypass, apparently, but I'm sure you could get clever and send two outputs; one with effects through XLR out and another dry through 1/4" out for example. Not sure why you'd want to do that, but it seems possible.

If I get pushback from the band or FOH, I'll adjust that approach potentially.

 

[Ögon]

Did some online researching today...
I'm really picky about sound quality. Honestly, the line 6 stuff can sound ok/great, but the electric guitar tones seem to have a nicer feel and quality on the Quad Cortex and the Fractal products. They both are very close. The QC is faster to adjust on the fly, but fractal seems alright if you spend time with it to know how it works. There are some tricks to speed it up:

I’ve been using my quad cortex for the last 2 1/2 years on tour and have played close to 200 shows with it + in-ears.

Before buying it, i was very reluctant about using modelers or multi-fx for live playing, because I’ve been in several situations where other players really struggled to adjust things during soundcheck or the nature of the modeler just slowed things down in situations where you are required to be quick.

This all changed for me when the QC was released, because it is super intuitive to use and it simply sounds great.

There are several videos on my YT channel of me using the unit on stage.

Nice to have you here Ivan, i'm a fan of your videos, very good quality demos.. and also fan your Super P dingwall.. can you tell me anything about the octavers, choruses on the QC? Any good for bass?

 

[loukash]

@Ögon have you looked at the Line 6 Pod Express Bass?

bad sounding. Listen to this:

Every amp model on the Pod Express has a Gain parameter, adjustable via Alt button > Comp/Gain. Apparently, the guy must have turned the gain all the way up.

 

[Ögon]

Every amp model on the Pod Express has a Gain parameter, adjustable via Alt button > Comp/Gain. Apparently, the guy must have turned the gain all the way up.

yeah i know, was having fun. but, i think there are better options in terms of sound.

 

[Bill Murray]

Honestly, they all rule. You can’t make a bad choice. Out of the box the Helix and the Fractal will take more work to sound good but once you learn the interface you would never be able to tell difference blind folded. Each unit can be setup to sound amazing and equally to sound terrible.

Line 6 wins for bass content, price, and customer/product support. It’s also built like a tank.

The Fractal stuff does IMHO have an edge in tonal quality but you’d never notice in a mix or live setting. The interface definitely requires a laptop, but with a laptop it’s easy once you know what you’re doing.

The QC is very modern in terms of looks and approach. For Bass I think it’s overkill and at the same time doesn’t have as much content for bass specifically.
The price point is high, the product is new, and the product support is slow.

Long story short, best bet is just to demo whatever you can through stores or friends.

Personal vote is for Helix because of the price point and support (also biased because that’s the choice I made haha).

Recorded bass on these with mine:

 

[loukash]

i think there are better options in terms of sound.

As always, it depends.
I'm an HX Stomp user since 4 years, so by now I know how to handle the sound in my sleep. Thus considering the Pod Express is an atractive option for me because I already know what to expect and how exactly all the models will sound like: they're the same as those in my Stomp.

But anyone who's new to modeling anyway, just check out what fits your needs the best.

For me, the HX Stomp was exactly what I needed four years ago: features, price, size and expandability (footswitches, expression pedals, MIDI, USB). And at that time I wasn't even aware of the the frequent free firmware updates yet! I started with v2.92 and six available blocks, and that seemed overwhelming to me already.

 

[jimfist]

can you tell me anything about the octavers, choruses on the QC? Any good for bass?

Octave effects can include a lot of different things. Can you be more specific about what type of octave effects you'd be wanting to use? For example, whammy; Boss OC-2; Harmonization; virtual capo (to universally change tuning of the instrument).

 

[Ögon]

Octave effects can include a lot of different things. Can you be more specific about what type of octave effects you'd be wanting to use? For example, whammy; Boss OC-2; Harmonization; virtual capo (to universally change tuning of the instrument).

Boss OC-2 / MXR 288 bass octave deluxe are octavers i used happily. Pitch down, analog, not polyphonic. Virtual capo can be interesting, for using maybe 2-3 times are year, but most of the virtual capo's have huge latency.

 

[Ögon]

Honestly, they all rule. You can’t make a bad choice. Out of the box the Helix and the Fractal will take more work to sound good but once you learn the interface you would never be able to tell difference blind folded. Each unit can be setup to sound amazing and equally to sound terrible.

Line 6 wins for bass content, price, and customer/product support. It’s also built like a tank.

The Fractal stuff does IMHO have an edge in tonal quality but you’d never notice in a mix or live setting. The interface definitely requires a laptop, but with a laptop it’s easy once you know what you’re doing.

The QC is very modern in terms of looks and approach. For Bass I think it’s overkill and at the same time doesn’t have as much content for bass specifically.
The price point is high, the product is new, and the product support is slow.

Long story short, best bet is just to demo whatever you can through stores or friends.

Personal vote is for Helix because of the price point and support (also biased because that’s the choice I made haha).

Recorded bass on these with mine:

As always, it depends.
I'm an HX Stomp user since 4 years, so by now I know how to handle the sound in my sleep. Thus considering the Pod Express is an atractive option for me because I already know what to expect and how exactly all the models will sound like: they're the same as those in my Stomp.

But anyone who's new to modeling anyway, just check out what fits your needs the best.

For me, the HX Stomp was exactly what I needed four years ago: features, price, size and expandability (footswitches, expression pedals, MIDI, USB). And at that time I wasn't even aware of the the frequent free firmware updates yet! I started with v2.92 and six available blocks, and that seemed overwhelming to me already.

The POD express seems to be a bit strange of experience to dial in. I would rather buy an HX stomp xl with the display and extra knobs and buttons.

Alright, i might take a look at the HX stomp XL, will have to check if it does bass and electric guitar well.. I'm a layback and practical person and feel sad the fractal units can not be bought in normal online shops. If it could, i would have bought the FM3, QC and HX stomp xl, compared them at home and return 2 of those..

 

[DonaldR]

I had not. And now i did.. Oh boy, it's very overpriced and bad sounding. Listen to this:

Overpriced I don't think so but this video will surely not help Line 6 sales

Some reported here how good the bass amp models were on the Helix. Same models on the Pod Express. You need to forget about the presets and build your own.

The builtin presets on my Eleven Rack were not very good but the one I built are top notch (according to my friends musicians). You need a good PA with a sub and some spare time

 

[DonaldR]

Just get an HX Effects and put whatever amp modelers/preamps in the effects loop. That's what I did and I think it's simpler in the long run as I can get the best and latest amp models without changing my full chain.

You can swap between Pod Express bass, Atomic Firebox, Strymon Iridium, TC Ampworks, Boss GT-Core, Boss Katana Go, Friedman IR-X, Tsakalis Audioworks, bass preamps, and even real amps in 4CM.