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Fractal FM3 FM9 vs Quad Cortex vs Helix and others.

Ö

Ögon

Jan 15, 2020
241
280
#1
Hello,

I've been using a good quality tube preamp with some other pedals for a while now and longing for new sounds. In terms of reliability, sound options, size and ease of transport, it seems like high quality multi-fx unit is a far better choice then separate pedals / di nowadays.

I'm looking for an all in one solution bass guitar playing and electric guitar, that will sound good using bass or electric-guitar.

* Realistic natural feel and good low mid mids / tube amp modelling or captures. No digital shrill or dull sounding experience. (most multi fx struggle with that)
* Quality octaver, chorus and tremolo effects
* Lush reverb sounds for ambient / funk / rock
* Usable amp-tones for funk, soul and rock. ( not only heavy gain sounds, but also layback tubey / crunchy / slightly overdriven sounds )
* I don't care about how much amp models or how much choruses or reverbs a unit has, i only care about the quality of them.

* Changing a few settings during a rehearsal or gig must be possible on the unit itself.
* I am willing to struggle through an hard interface if that gives me my dream sounds (reason why the fm3/fm9 is mentioned) Sound quality is what matters most.
* Reliable
* XLR out
* 2 inputs are not necessary, i don't play both bass and electric guitar in one gig.

* Price is not a criteria, but its good to set a limit, most units are under $ 2000 / € 2000 and that price-limit is alright.

On internet there are not a lot of Neural DSP Quad Cortex or Fractal audio units bass demo's, and also not a lot of bass multi-fx comparisons in general, sadly.

I am curious about your experiences and opinions .. !! :D
Thank you.
 
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#3
I can help you with the FM9. It's higher priced than you've mentioned at €2,399.00 via G66 distributor.
If this is your first jump into multi-fx for all-in-one, you'll need to plan for lots of time learning the work flow, strengths and limitations no matter which way you go. If you're up to the task, it can be very rewarding. It is very difficult trying to sift through all of the marketing and information to try to figure out which product would suit you best. I advise you take your time and read Read READ the owner's manuals until your eyes pop out! :eek:

With respect to Fractal Audio (FM3/FM9), I'd suggest you join their forum, do some reading, and ask questions. It's not the most "bass friendly" forum content-wise, as it's over-run with guitarists (and it is exceptionally good at guitar amp modeling and effects), but regardless, lots of good information to be learned there, and people are generally respectful.

Personally, I think the FM9 is a great piece of gear even though it has few bass-specific amp models. I've been very critical of Fractal about the lack of more bass amps/cabs, but even with that being the case, I still think this is the best modeler I've ever owned, and I'm getting the best sounds I've ever gotten for DI bass tones into FRFR systems. Highest of Quality IMO. Excellent modeling, excellent special effects, excellent attention to detail and product support.
 
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#5
MultiScaleMale said:
Fractal is cool, but lack of bass amp selection and a very complicated interface resulted in me returning my FM9 for a refund. I’ve never tried a QC.
Click to expand...
Yup. Common issues with Fractal. Really lagging in bass specific models, and not easy to edit on the unit. Neither were deal breakers for me, but totally understandable.
 
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#6
jimfist said:
Yup. Common issues with Fractal. Really lagging in bass specific models, and not easy to edit on the unit. Neither were deal breakers for me, but totally understandable.
Click to expand...

If I played guitar, I'd probably put in the time and take the $110 "how to program it" course. There is a ton in there for guitar. I gave up on modelers in the end, but the FM9 didn't sound bad.
 
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#7
Had a QC that I sold to get an FM9. I never got an acceptable capture using the QC - best was close with a lot of tweaking but still a noticeable difference. The internal controllers on the Fractal allow for some fantastic effects (LFO on a ring mod osc frequency ala Moog MF-102) that the QC can’t touch. The FM9 amp models sounded better (the ones they have) to me. Although they don’t have many bass amps - they do have models of a SVT, Mesa Boogie 400, and Orange AD200 - works for me.

Can’t speak for the Helix other than I never got along with their earlier fx units.

Definitely need to use a computer for editing the FM9. For gigs where space is not an issue, I still use some analog effects with the FM9 that just sound better (some gated fuzzes, octaver, envelope filters, etc.). My FM9 did replace a whole lot of individual pedals (compressor, whammy, flanger, phaser, delay, distortion / overdrive, eq, crossover pedal, looper selector, etc.).
 
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#8
I play both guitar and bass and I'm using modelers for years but I don't own Fractal or Helix modelers.

I leave in Canada so ordering Fractal from USA would work but sending for repair would be a pain. From the video I watched it sounded very polished and "finalized" on guitar if you know what I mean. And it looked very complex with many pages of parameters. The FM3 hardware seems very well done and adding a Tech21 Mongoose midi controller would have fit my bill (smaller and cheaper than FM9). But too much tweaking, not available locally, and almost nothing bass related maid me looked elsewhere.

I have a Digidesign Eleven Rack, still liking it for guitar but now use it exclusively for bass. There's only one SVT model and one variation of it, so pretty limited, but IMHO it sounds VERY good. Limited effects but of high quality (studio delay, studio reverb, studio compressor, studio 4-band parametric eq, etc). Discontinued but you can get one for $200.

I don't like Helix guitar amp models but the effects are very good. I played with Line 6 bass amp models in Pod Farm years ago and really liked them. So I decided to look for something else.

I bought the HX Effects for my guitars. There's no amp modelling, only effects. But when looking at the distortion models I found a Tech21 BDDI and a Darkglass B7K. I gave the BDDI a try, and even if the video I watched about the hardware model were not my cup of tea, I really like it on the HX Effects. There's also some nice effects that, even if they are designed for guitar, can be used with the dual path, keeping your bass tone intact. Compressor is good, octaver is good, etc. Nobel preamp was added recently and it's sounding very good also.

For me, the user interface on the HX Effects is really like using a pedalboard. I usually build a patch and use it in pedal mode where I can switch effects on/off like regular pedals and I can tweak them using knobs like regular pedals. I could gig the HX Effects without anything else.

As you can see, the HX Effects doesn't have amp models, it's working for me for bass. As I also wanted an Ampeg flavor, I put an Ampeg Classic preamp in the effects loop. So now I can switch between Ampeg and BDDI in the same preset and I have another preset for Noble.

For guitar I got an Atomic Firebox. There's 15 guitar amp models and one SVT model. Since I was already covered on the bass side, I'm using the Firebox exclusively for guitars. As the Firebox is a relatively small pedal, I put it also in the effects loop of the HX Effects. The Firebox can be used as on/off or as a two channel guitar amp. There's also a second switch that I'm using to add boost and delay for solo, becoming a 4-channel guitar amp (clean rhythm, clean lead, crunch rhythm, crunch lead). I can add whatever effects I want on the HX Effects (chorus, long delay, wha, etc.), pre or post Firebox, and I'm using the IR in the Firebox (I sometimes take only this and a 9v battery in my gigbag to go jamming with friends). But I created a patch with an acoustic guitar IR and it's working better for me than bringing an acoustic guitar for 1-2 songs.

I chosen the Atomic Firebox (I have the v2 now) because I prefer the raw tone against the "finished" tone of Fractal or Helix. I built a small pedalboard and I'm swapping the Ampeg preamp when I play bass (but not absolutely needed as I can live only with the BDDI and the Noble models).

Here's my pedalboard for bass:
upload_2022-4-20_15-19-3.png


And for guitar (Atomic Firebox 2 now):
IMG_3399.jpeg


I built a side module for 4CM, midi/power (ethernet connector) and direct to FOH depending what cable I connect.
image.jpeg


This is a long post and I probably didn't answer your questions but this is Talkbass :roflmao:.
 
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#12
mmon77 said:
I don't think you can beat the Helix when it comes to support for bass. If you're using it for guitar, it is a vastly different playing field. I use my Helix for both, and I'm very happy with how it sounds, and the ongoing support from Line 6 since I bought the unit years ago.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. I've been using a Helix LT for a few months, and the bass-specific amp models and effects are fairly extensive. I've been really impressed with it as an upgrade from the Line 6 M13 I was using previously.
 
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#13
I have owned all three options and used them for both guitar and bass. My thoughts on them:

1) Helix - Great UI both in unit and via desktop, pretty good sounds, great options for buying people's patches. Simple and reliable, easy to adjust on the fly.

2) Fractal - I had an FM3 and FC6. GREAT sounds for guitar or bass, noticeably better than the Helix. The UI is extremely difficult to navigate IMO and not great to navigate on the fly. The desktop editor is significantly better, but it was a NIGHTMARE to have to go into edit something live. I always brought my laptop with me to gigs to use the desktop editor instead of going through the menus on the board.

3) QC - I traded the Fractal rig for the QC and really like it a lot. The tones are great, the UI is extremely simple, intuitive and flexible. I preferred the tone of the Fractal stuff - SLIGHTLY - but ease of use makes it 10000% worth it. The touch screen is great, responsive, and it has great sounding bass/guitar options. The only downside is there are not as many patch downloads from artists like the Helix or Fractal because the QC app is free and community sourced. So you're more on your own to create patches. I still own the QC and love it for guitar and bass.
 
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#14
MultiScaleMale said:
Fractal is cool, but lack of bass amp selection and a very complicated interface resulted in me returning my FM9 for a refund. I’ve never tried a QC.
Click to expand...

I agree. Fractal stuff is great gear, I use it everyday for guitar. But it lacks bass stuff and to be honest I don’t like the bass amp and cab models that much. They all sound too muffled and bass heavy to me. I don’t think they are modeled correctly. I get much better results for bass with vst instruments/plugins. They really should employ some bass players instead of only guitar players.

I have tried the Quad Cortex from a friend only two days. Didn’t have enough time with it, but in general I prefered my Axe fx II soundwise.

You can also check the Boss GT1000 or HX Stomp. You don’t have to buy top of the line. Or maybe Kemper?

I don’t find the editing of the Axe fx overly complicated though. Just use the software editor. Every piece of gear has a learning curve.
 
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#15
I own an Helix LT => super simple (even on the fly) to navigate into the UI, great way to recall the presets, good sounding, in terms of sound IMHO nothing goes near the result you can get with Fractal, but the UI is very complicated and not that simple to be changed during a live session for example, tried the QC with guitar and it sounds awesome, but if you're playing live the best choice to me is the Helix for the "old school pedalboard feeling" and ease of use
 
#16
A HX stomp with sushibox fx "finally" and "more" pedals to make it feel nicer to play? The sounds are very good, yes you might get a slightly better sound from the QC or Fractal, but you'd get a better sound from higher quality amplification anyway, and the bass specific items as others have said are really well done on the stomp.
Although to be honest I still prefer using my full pedalboard so my opinion probably isn't that valid, I'm not a modeller convert.
 
#17
bassistjoe93 said:
I have owned all three options and used them for both guitar and bass. My thoughts on them:

1) Helix - Great UI both in unit and via desktop, pretty good sounds, great options for buying people's patches. Simple and reliable, easy to adjust on the fly.

2) Fractal - I had an FM3 and FC6. GREAT sounds for guitar or bass, noticeably better than the Helix. The UI is extremely difficult to navigate IMO and not great to navigate on the fly. The desktop editor is significantly better, but it was a NIGHTMARE to have to go into edit something live. I always brought my laptop with me to gigs to use the desktop editor instead of going through the menus on the board.

3) QC - I traded the Fractal rig for the QC and really like it a lot. The tones are great, the UI is extremely simple, intuitive and flexible. I preferred the tone of the Fractal stuff - SLIGHTLY - but ease of use makes it 10000% worth it. The touch screen is great, responsive, and it has great sounding bass/guitar options. The only downside is there are not as many patch downloads from artists like the Helix or Fractal because the QC app is free and community sourced. So you're more on your own to create patches. I still own the QC and love it for guitar and bass.
Click to expand...

mmon77 said:
I don't think you can beat the Helix when it comes to support for bass. If you're using it for guitar, it is a vastly different playing field. I use my Helix for both, and I'm very happy with how it sounds, and the ongoing support from Line 6 since I bought the unit years ago.
Click to expand...


Does the Fractal desktop editor minimum specs? If not, using a cheapo 2nd hand 11 or 12 inch laptop would be an easy solution.

Anyone know if there is a video somewhere about using the fractal UI on the unit itself, editing stuff? Most videos show the desktop editor..

Most youtube vids that include bass and fractal / QC / helix products show off pretty gainy sounds and not clean/tubey overdriven sounds that i would like to use.. Im looking for Ampeg SVT / b15 / db751 / mesa boogie sounds, that fit well with my precision bass. Motown/soul/steve harris/pop like sounds. Are they included? Can you tell me more about the effects quality? Octaver/chorus/reverb/what kind of compressors etc?
 
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#18
HX Stomp user since 4 years. Using it for electric and acoustic basses, electric and acoustic guitars, self-made amplified percussion, heck, even as a "mini-mixer" with up to two vocal mics, an acoustic guitar and an acoustic bass. Live on stage, at band rehearsals, jam sessions, or as an audio interface for practicing or recording.
The best music gear investment in my over 40 years of active music making. :)
 
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#19
Caveat with Helix stuff though:
Forget the built-in presets, those are just examples that may only coincidentally work OK with your particular instrument(s) or actual taste.
Learn to dial in your own presets. It may take quite some time to get the feel for all the available parameters.
Also, what sounds great in your favorite headphones may sound totally bad on any given stage or FOH.
Been there done that…
 
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#20
Ögon said:
Does the Fractal desktop editor minimum specs? If not, using a cheapo 2nd hand 11 or 12 inch laptop would be an easy solution.

Anyone know if there is a video somewhere about using the fractal UI on the unit itself, editing stuff? Most videos show the desktop editor..

Most youtube vids that include bass and fractal / QC / helix products show off pretty gainy sounds and not clean/tubey overdriven sounds that i would like to use.. Im looking for Ampeg SVT / b15 / db751 / mesa boogie sounds, that fit well with my precision bass. Motown/soul/steve harris/pop like sounds. Are they included? Can you tell me more about the effects quality? Octaver/chorus/reverb/what kind of compressors etc?
Click to expand...
From Fractal Audio website: FM9-Edit – Fractal Audio Systems
"Requires Windows 10 or newer (64-bit only). Windows 7 may work but is not officially supported.
(32-bit version: Version 1.02.11)"

Regarding the user interface and editing on the unit, there's a lot of menu diving and button pressing, depending on where you need to go. In order to make this a little less cumbersome, there are 5 assignable knobs on the unit so you can access your most needed parameters for on-the-fly tweaking (amp gain, tone controls, etc.).

The stock presets aren't at all geared to bass players, so you either have to create your own or purchase 3rd party presets. There's a commercial user named Austin Buddy who has a popular bass package with lots of tone/style variations and emulations, 200 presets and 14 custom cabinet IRs: AustinBuddy Presets
There are also some demo audio/video of this bass pack on the website.
 
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